kaben3
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Post by kaben3 on Mar 22, 2011 15:00:55 GMT -5
Hello. I am looking to find members of the 106th or family members of veterans that could help me find out more information if possible about my grandfather's WWII service. His name, Alfred J. LeBlanc (His last name on his papers and researching come up as 2 seperate words LE Blanc, should be LeBlanc). His seperation papers list him in the 424th Infantry Regiment in the 106th Infantry Divsion (Golden Lions). And his discharge papers list him in the 16th Engineer Combat Battallion, Company C (not sure about this part too much, only thing I could locate on this Engineer Battallion was they served in Italy, and my grandfather did not). He was involved in the Rhineland, Ardennes, and Central Europe Campaigns per both his discharge & seperation papers. The little he did talk about the war was of the Battle of the Buldge. Place of entry into the service was in Boston, Massachusetts, and place of seperation was at Fort Devens, Massachusetts. I keep running into dead ends on my search, and thought this may be a good place to start. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. NOTE: also see member intro: 106thdivision.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=introductions&thread=502&page=1 |
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Post by connie on Mar 24, 2011 0:28:53 GMT -5
Karrie,
Please accept my condolences on the recent death of your grandfather. It is a tribute to him that you are looking to fill in the blanks on his history.
Your accounts are certainly consistent with his being in the 424th Infantry Regiment of the 106th Infantry Division. The worries at home during the Battle of the Bulge would most likely have come from his division affiliation. Newspaper accounts pretty early on were indicating that large portions of the division were missing. Those early announcements did not get down to regiment numbers.
The division was at the center of the initial German offensive actions that began on December 16, 1944
The division's 3 infantry regiments were placed on the line in numerical order from north to south: 422, 423, 424. Most of the members of the 422nd and 423rd Infantry Regiments were surrounded and captured.
Most of the members of the 424th were able to withdraw to fight another day. Actually... many other days. The duration of the Battle of the Bulge was arbitrarily determined by the time it took to retake the territory lost to the Germans early in the offensive. This took more than a month.
Retracing your Grandfather's steps generally following the regiment will not be difficult. More detail can be achieved if you can find his company within the 424th.
It sounds like you're doing all the right things to find answers. It does take some perseverance and sometimes more than a bit of luck. Hang in there and keep checking in.
The engineering unit is a puzzle -- particularly appearing on discharge papers. I wonder if it's possible that he was transferred out of the 106th some time during the post-VE days in the summer or fall of 1945?
Connie
Daughter of a Field Artillery Officer
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Post by connie on Mar 24, 2011 8:50:53 GMT -5
A few more thoughts/ questions.
My levels of "expertise" in these things is growing slowly, but it has definite gaps. Others on this site can help more in most areas. I went on line this AM to try to figure out a difference you obviously already know-- between discharge papers and separation papers. I'm not sure I have it yet. Can anyone enlighten me more?
I assume both of these documents are dated. Can you share the dates of each for your grandfather?
Connie
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kaben3
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Post by kaben3 on Mar 24, 2011 15:00:04 GMT -5
Hi Connie,
Thanks for your replies and condolences. We are definitely proud of him and will miss him. I have been researching my family tree for years, this military research is new. I have learned more about the military in the past month and half than I have ever know.
Dates of seperation are the same on both 15 Apr 46, and date into active service is the same on both 24 Jan 44. And there are dates of service overseas - date of departure 21 Oct 44 - ETO - 28 Oct 44, & 30 Mar 46 - US - 9 Apr 46.
It is strage about the 16th Engineer Combat Bn, Company C. Someone on another posting site suggested the same as you had that he was transfered in the post V-E days as well. The same person also suggested that he may not have earned enough points, not sure what this means? And that the 106th would have been back in the states in Oct 1945.
I do believe it is a matter of finding what company he was in prior to this 16th ECB. My other question is he has a CIB.
Thats all for now. Have to wait and see.
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Post by connie on Mar 24, 2011 16:33:29 GMT -5
Karrie,
You might check your personal mail for a link to a video that may or may not have any bearing on your question. The fact that both documents contain same dates may blow the theory I was working with on this one.
The "point" thing went through my mind, too, when thinking about the possibility of a transfer to another unit late in 106th ETO history. Points were awarded for a multitude of factors including children back home, months spent abroad, purple heart/ oak leaf cluster qualifying wounds, etc. Those without enough points got to watch others with enough qualifying points leave first.
Connie
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kaben3
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Post by kaben3 on Mar 24, 2011 18:32:39 GMT -5
Ok my aunt just called me. She just came across a family book that she apparently had filled out probably 15+ years ago. There was a section for military service. She states that she has noted talking to him that he was in the 106th Infantry Division, 424th Infantry Regiment, Company C, Platoon 4. She has a picture of him (She is going to try and scan it to me in the next few days), with him and his lion patch, and also a 7th army patch. She states that she has 2 sets of lapel pins, one is infantry and the other is engineer.
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kaben3
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Post by kaben3 on Mar 24, 2011 23:03:56 GMT -5
Ok. So a newbie to this, I am being told 7th Army is no relation to the 106th, but probably to the Combat Engineer part? However I didn't see the info, she was reading this over the phone. She is supposed to scan me a copy of his picture (s) and the info by this weekend. I am just happy that I found something. Now it is time to piece this together.
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Carl W.
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Post by Carl W. on Mar 25, 2011 3:56:53 GMT -5
Hello Karrie,
It was not uncommon for soldiers to be reassigned to a different unit in the late stages of the war. Like Connie mentioned, this had to do with the 'points' system devised by the Army. A soldier needed 85 to be discharged, otherwise further service was required. Since the 106th was deactivated in October 1945, your grandfather was probably transferred before that time and continued with the occupation army in Europe.
The 16th Engineer Battalion, from what I read, was stationed in Austria (US Zone of Occupation) from August 1945 onwards.
The date of that unit's arrival in the USA (April 1945) seems to correspond with your grandfathers discharge papers.
Greetings
Carl
The 106th was actually part of the 7th Army for some time in 1945.
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Post by floydragsdale on Mar 25, 2011 12:03:04 GMT -5
Hello Karri;
Your Grandfather, I think, went through the same fate, or circumstaces that I did.
In August 1945, the 106th was homeward bound. The Division (including me) was in a staging area in France being processed for return to the State. I think that we were in a place called Camp Lucky Strike.
We were attending an orientation class about "ruturning to the States" when a messenger handed a note to the speaker. The speaker in turn, read the note to the men, that stated, "the followig men will report to __________. It didn't say what for, however my name was included in that list of men. There were quite a few names on the list.
As it turned out, all those men were being reassinged to other Army Units in Europe. In other words the men on that list weren't not going home.
Army regulations were that they could keep a soldier for the duration of the war, plus six months.
The duration of the War wasn't declared until many months after the war actually ended on the 8th of May 1954.
Your Grandfather and I arrived back in the States on the same date in 1946 and both off us were discharged on the same date, 9 April 1946.
I wonder if we were on the same ship, which was the Westerly Victory that sailed out of Antwerp, Belgium in March 1945.
The "point" system was great, that is, unless the Army dicided to keep a Soldier for a while longer. Sometimes that system seemed very unjust for some soldiers.
Floyd
G Company
424th Regiment
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kaben3
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Post by kaben3 on Mar 25, 2011 12:15:42 GMT -5
Thanks very much Floyd. Seems I am getting a lot of pieces to the puzzle and this is making much more sense. This site and a few others have been especially helpful in providing information. It is hard without him being here to ask these questions to unfortunately  And with his file being destroyed at the National Archives, this has been a challenging road to fill in the blanks. He did sail out of Antwerp, Belgium as well. When I receive the picture of him in uniform from my aunt I can post it. Right now all I have are a few of him, however it must of been when he first enlisted. Thanks again Floyd for your imput. I really appreciate it. If you don't mind me asking where we you reassigned to? |
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Post by floydragsdale on Mar 26, 2011 19:40:07 GMT -5
Karrie:
All during the War there were many American Citizens living in Europe. Uncle Sam Could not draft them as long as they stayed where they were. However, when the war ended things changed. Uncle Sam informed them, "Servre your time in the Armed forces, or lose your citizenship.
Rather than send them to the States for their Basic Training, the Army trained them over there. First, in France, about 35 miles from Paris and later (fall and winter) Marburg, Germany.
I was a member of the Cadre who gave them basic Training.
In late July, or early August of "44' I was shipped out of Camp Lucky Strike and sent to Camp Baltimore, near Rheims, France. When the 2nd A bomb was dropped on Japan and the War ended the outfit I was assigned to inherited the job of training these new Draftees.
There are Army "politics" involved in the story but I'll end it here.
By the way, I was discharged at Camp Atterbury, Indiana, 9 April 1946, in a brand new Uniform (Ike Jacket) and I can still wear it.
Floyd
G Co.
424th Regiment
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kaben3
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Post by kaben3 on Apr 25, 2011 14:47:17 GMT -5
Here is one of a few pictures that I have located, I believe this corresponds with his d/c papers. Attachments:
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kaben3
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Post by kaben3 on Apr 25, 2011 14:48:16 GMT -5
He is on the bottom right squating down.
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kaben3
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Post by kaben3 on Apr 25, 2011 14:52:56 GMT -5
I broke the picture into 2. These are all the medals with his army things. My Aunt had put them on this piece of cardboard with some description. I am not familiar what the bottom right ribbon is. He is definitely missing some medals, only have the ribbons except the good conduct one. Attachments:
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kaben3
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Post by kaben3 on Apr 25, 2011 14:54:55 GMT -5
Medals part 2. We have 2 of each lapel pin (1 shown) - and 2 tech 5 patches (1 shown) Attachments:
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kaben3
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Post by kaben3 on Apr 25, 2011 17:05:09 GMT -5
And another trying to make it fit - one long photo. I think this has to do with his basic training. Attachments:
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kaben3
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Post by kaben3 on Apr 25, 2011 17:06:31 GMT -5
My grandfather is standing behind the guy to the left sitting on the ground.
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Post by connie on Apr 26, 2011 18:22:33 GMT -5
The photos came out well. I am impressed! Carl and others on this site are adept at reading uniforms. I am not. (I've been reading letters from the war.) I suspect they will be able to piece together a lot of info from these photos. I did go on line last night to look for some kind of index to unit shoulder patches. I posted what I found under How to Read a Uniform in the Research Corner of this site: 106thdivision.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=research&thread=252&page=1#1790You have probably already figured out that the patch your grandfather was wearing in the small group photo was 7th Army. (I found this on the site mentioned in the link noted in the last paragraph. I had to make my way to page 8 of the patches there before I learned this. As noted I have a lot to learn. It does surprise me that the 7th Army patch is worn in the same place that the division patch was worn. But the surprise doesn't come from a place of knowledge. I'm just accustomed to seeing a Golden Lion patch in that spot and figured from that limited knowledge that it was just division patches that went there. I do know that you didn't have to make any changes in the division you were with in order to have your assignment at the corps or army level changed. Through the Bulge the 106th was assigned to the First Army, but as Carl pointed out, that changed-- I believe sometime after VE Day. It is good that you have pretty firm knowledge about your grandfather's assignment within the 106th Infantry Division. Knowing he was in the 424th Infantry Regiment, Company C, Platoon 4 is huge. It is also clear that he left the states with that regiment and returned from Europe long after the 106th had returned to the states and been deactivated. This makes it clear that sometime during the summer of 45 (or early in the fall) he was transferred to a different assignment outside the 106th. That his discharge papers name the 16th Engineer Combat Battalion, I think you can take to the bank the fact that this is the unit he ended up with sometime in the latter half of 1945. The Combat Infantry Badge would have been earned during his time with the 106th. What you know is huge. But as you look at photos, patches, dates, etc. there is one additional possibility to keep in mind. In the summer of '44 over half of the men of 106th Infantry Division were pulled out to meet the personnel needs of other divisions. Then the division awaited its own replacements. Your Grandfather's entry into service was months after the division's activation. When he entered, the men of the 106th were going through maneuvers in Tennessee. It is quite likely that he went through basic training and his earliest times in the states with still another division and joined the division during the period of replacements in the summer of 1944. Most of this addition of replacements to the division happened while the 106th Infantry Division was stationed at Camp Atterbury in Indiana awaiting replacements and orders to the front. But you have the most vital information. You know that it was with the 106th Infantry Division that he went overseas and with whom he earned his Combat Infantry Badge. The time with the engineering unit after hostilities and the possibility of another assignment before time with the 106th both are just pieces that bracket the assignment to the 106th. Well... there's more than I knew I was going to write... Thanks for sharing your journey and your photos. I hope others can read the clues in the photos. I look forward to more... Connie |
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kaben3
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Post by kaben3 on Apr 26, 2011 20:18:32 GMT -5
Here is another. There is a very faded name stamped with a "Ko" then m or nn, then not sure someone, had glued this into one of those old back paper albums, can't scrape off anymore. Thanks Connie for all of your help and imput. It is really appreciated.  Attachments:
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Post by floydragsdale on Apr 27, 2011 12:24:10 GMT -5
Hi Karrie:
I noticed that your Grandfather was in Company C, 4th platoon. The 4th platoon was a "heavy weapons" platoon in C Company. So, he was either in the machine gun section, or the 60mm mortar section.
I was in G Company, 4th platoon with the 424 Regiment. I believe that his fate was the same as mine and that we were were in the same place and day when he was "reassigned" and sent to the 7th Army. If I remember correctly, that was the later part of July 1945.
We, probably the entire Battalion, were at an orientation session regarding going back to the U.S.A. A messanger interrupted the speaker and gave him a paper; looking at the paper he said, "The following men will report to "such and such a place, at once." Bingo, all of those men were reassigned to other Army outfits.
I was one of those soldiers and I think your Grandfather was one of them too.
If you want to read my part of this story, let me know.
I'll just add that I was put in an outfit that was going straight to the Pacific Theater of Operations and was within several days of being on board ship and on the way. But then an atom bomb was dropped on the otherside of the world in Japan. Bingo, the war ended. Nevertheless, I would not be going back to the states until April 1946, the same time your Grandfather did.
I returned to the states on a ship named "The Westerly Victory". I would wager that your Grandfather returned home on the same vessel.
WOW! What a coincidence if that's correct.
Floyd
Floyd,
Co. G, 424th Regiment
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Post by floydragsdale on Apr 28, 2011 11:15:33 GMT -5
Hi Karrie:
The ribbon on the "lower right" looks like a WWII Victory Medal.
Floyd
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kaben3
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Post by kaben3 on Apr 28, 2011 13:11:01 GMT -5
Hi Floyd, Yes, he was in Company C, 4th Platoon, per my aunt's notes from a conversation she documented about 15 years ago. Hmm I wonder which section he was in. I do know he had a SS badge, only from his discharge papers, and the picture showing him with it. I can post that later today. I believe you to be correct about the reassignment part. It has been a challenge trying to document his military service, since so many documents, including his whole military file were destroyed. So imput from yourself and so many others have been crutial and appreciated. The later part of 1945 would be correct. My aunt also mentioned he was an infantryman for apprx 12 months, and a truck driver for the balance of the time, so that would be the engineer part. So that would fit with the 106th time and his discharge papers. I am having a hard time proving the CIB part, his discharge paper don't list this badge, only the sharpshooter one - Hmm  Anyway, I would think you guys would have seen enough action by that point, bummer you had another apprx 6 months to fufill. However you guys did a great job and for that we/I am greatful I have copied and sent your responses to my mom, aunt, and my sister, they are amazed I have located someone that actually served in the 106th, even though you were in different companies. Just like myself, all the info you have provided and others match what we know, so it is encouraging to hear someone with very similar experience(s). To bad I can't locate a picture of him with the 106th. I would definitely be interested in reading your part of the story. I am very much a history person, and this search has definitely become very informative, interesting, and have met some very nice folks. Wow you got shipped towards the Pacific Campaign. My other grandfather also served in WWII in the 101st Airborne/502nd, but he was with them for the entire time. I have been reading up on his service as well, however he is easier to track As far as the ship he came back on, I have been told the following information from a WWII historian: Departure Date: October 21, 1944 Departure Location: New York Port of Embarkation Ship: RMS Aquitania Arrival Date: October 28, 1944 Arrival Location: Gourock, Scotland - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Departure Date: March 30, 1946 Departure Location: Antwerp, Belgium Ship: SS Waterbury Victory Arrival Date: April 9, 1946 Arrival Location: New York P of E Well got to get back to work. Thanks again for your imput and perspective. Karrie |
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Carl W.
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Post by Carl W. on Apr 29, 2011 3:51:17 GMT -5
Karrie,
The ribbon in the lower right corner of the photo showing some of your grandfather's patches and Golden lion insignia, is the ribbon for the WWI (Great War) Occupation Medal. Perhaps this belonged to his father who served with the American Army of Occupation in the Rhineland after 1918.
The picture in reply #11 seems to be taken in the US, probably prior to his discharge from the army. The patch of the man standing left is that of the 36th "Texas" division. I think all men are from different divisional units, but all seem to wear the 7th Army patch.
The picture of your grandfather sitting on the railing certainly looks like it was taken in the ETO, most likely Germany. Perhaps Cologne? (In Germany it is written Köln)
Greetings
Carl
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kaben3
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Post by kaben3 on May 2, 2011 18:54:03 GMT -5
Hi Carl,
Thanks for the reply and the input re: the pictures I posted. I will have to check however about the WWI ribbon, I don't ever remember his father being in WWI, but I could be incorrect. Thanks again.
-Karrie
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kaben3
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Post by kaben3 on May 19, 2011 19:08:56 GMT -5
Ok done with school for the summer now. Back to focus Here are a few more pictures I have located Attachments:
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kaben3
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Post by kaben3 on May 19, 2011 19:09:28 GMT -5
The backside Attachments:
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kaben3
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Post by kaben3 on May 19, 2011 19:10:03 GMT -5
Last one Attachments:
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kaben3
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Post by kaben3 on May 19, 2011 19:10:32 GMT -5
And again the backside Attachments:
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Carl W.
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Post by Carl W. on May 20, 2011 13:46:19 GMT -5
Kornwestheim is a German city in the district of Baden-Württemberg. Ludwigshafen a. Rh. (am Rhein) is located right next to Mannheim. These pictures are definitely from the post-1945 army of occupation days ;-)
Greetings
Carl
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kaben3
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Post by kaben3 on Jul 28, 2011 21:35:48 GMT -5
Hello Again, After bugging more family members for more information about my grandfather's service, I was told my grandfathers parents received a telegram stating he was missing or missing in action while he was with the 106th, and as expected his parents were very nervous and worried. They also had 3 other sons in the war. I asked my mom and her sister my aunt this, they too confirmed the same story. Of course no one has this telegram, so I am assuming it is lost at this point. I did make sure I confirmed with each person that it wasn't that someone read 106th members were missing in a newspaper article, however they each confirmed that it actually was a telegram. So that is 6 people confirming the same story. I spent the other day going through 2 months of his hometown's newspapers for Dec 1944, and Jan 1945, didn't come across anything for him. There were 3 Alfred J. LeBlanc's however, 2 served in the Pacific at that time, and 1 was a medic. Anyother thoughts on possibly proving this. I did also check the NARA missing in action list, and another link online as well. Nothing. Any thoughts would be apprciated -Karrie NOTE FROM CONNIE: THIS IS NOT THE LAST POST; CLICK BELOW TO MOVE TO PAGE 2 OF POSTS ON THIS THREAD! |
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And with his file being destroyed at the National Archives, this has been a challenging road to fill in the blanks. He did sail out of Antwerp, Belgium as well. When I receive the picture of him in uniform from my aunt I can post it. Right now all I have are a few of him, however it must of been when he first enlisted. Thanks again Floyd for your imput. I really appreciate it. If you don't mind me asking where we you reassigned to? 
