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Post by connie on Jun 24, 2011 11:27:34 GMT -5
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Post by welkebj on Jun 24, 2011 12:44:16 GMT -5
This message applies to not only the 423rd but any unit that had a member who went through Limburg. I have read no less than 30 accounts of just members of the 423rd that talk about the allied bombing when they were in the rail cars at Limburg. Some say it was the 23rd and some say it was the 24th. My thinking is that if there was a bombing on both days some of the men (at least the ones that were bombed on the 23rd) would have talked about being bombed twice. Does anyone have any insight as to which day is correct and/or if there were 2 bombings.
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Post by vinbyrnes on Mar 1, 2012 16:47:06 GMT -5
Hi Connie, thank you for the web sites listed here.... I just found these and find these very interesting to say the least thanks again
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Post by connie on Jul 18, 2012 10:51:35 GMT -5
Thanks for the positive feedback!
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Post by connie on Jul 18, 2012 10:53:13 GMT -5
A member of this discussion board wrote to me:
My Dad was the First Sergeant for Company I, 3rd Batallion, 423 Inf Reg during the Battle of the Bulge. I am trying to determine which campaign ribbons the unit received as well as unit citations can you assist?
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Post by connie on Jul 18, 2012 10:55:45 GMT -5
I sent the above inquiry to John Schaffner the Division Historian and his reply was:
Connie,
I am passing this on to Carl as he may have an answer right off the top. The 423rd would no doubt have the “spam” ribbon with the Ardennes credit. An individual, if not captured, may have Rhineland and/or Central Europe as well. He may have to write to St. Louis for his father’s records.
Best,
John
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Post by connie on Jul 20, 2012 18:15:12 GMT -5
Here's Carl's Reply:
Hi John,
Hi Connie,
The 423rd was officially credited for three campaigns: Ardennes-Alsace, Northern France and Rhineland. POW's usually had two bronze service stars and a credit for the Rhineland campaign was unlikely for them.
The individual campaign credits are usually mentioned on the DD-124 discharge form.
Only one platoon of F-Co of the 423rd is eligible for the Presidentially Distinguished Unit Citation (Blue PUC ribbon worn above right breast pocket on the IKE Jacket) due to their participation in the defense of St Vith.
The other 'standard' enlisted soldiers of the 423rd were usually awarded with Good conduct ribbon, EAME (European-African-Mediterranean Campaign aka SPAM) Ribbon. The WWII Victory Medal, The American Campaign Medal (depends on their service prior to 12/7/41). This excludes possible ribbons for Occupation duty (Occupation Ribbon), individual merit (Bronze Star, Silver Star etc), wounds received in action (Purple Heart), POW status (POW ribbon) etc.
Hope this helps!
Greetings!
Carl
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Post by connie on Jun 7, 2014 11:23:06 GMT -5
This morning I added a link to the 423rd POW Manifest to the list of links at the top of this thread and also to the links at the top of the 423rd segment of the Site Soldier index. I figured it would be handy to have this link here. Hope others find it helpful...
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Post by samhodges on Jul 27, 2014 17:51:58 GMT -5
 This is a photo of my grandfather W.W. Anderson aka Andy, third to left on back row the day he was released from Stalag XIB with his buddies. W.W. Anderson was in 423 Co.G. I don't know any of the others. |
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Post by samhodges on Jul 27, 2014 18:15:10 GMT -5
These are newspaper articles collected by my grandmother while W.W. Anderson aka Andy with 106th 423 Co. G. |
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Post by connie on Aug 12, 2014 10:24:56 GMT -5
Thanks, Sam! You've added some amazing pieces of history. I'm just catching up after a return from vacation. But after breakfast my next step is to sit back and thoroughly read these 2 articles which I have just skimmed. Yesterday I added a link under the photo section to the photo of your dad and his friends after release from POW camp. This will be a treasure to someone who happens along and recognizes a relative... Connie Additional Note September 2021;Sam, I've added a link to info o n XI-B and also linked that site to your posts and others with an connection to that camp: 106thdivision.proboards.com/post/5018/thread |
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Post by samhodges on Aug 14, 2014 21:24:03 GMT -5
Thanks Connie for all your help. I saw the link you added. There was a typo on my grandfathers name, Webber Wilson Anderson is the correct spelling. But no worries.
I hope some recognizes the other guys in the photo.
A few of the guys do not appear to be dressed like American soldiers. So they may have been from an Allie unit. Does anyone know if they consolidated American troops with others in Stalag XIB or not. Or would they have all been U.S.?
Note from Connie:
I've made the spelling correction in your grandfather's name in the Site Soldier index. These things are vital. Thanks for catching it!
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Carl W.
Active Member
Administrator
The Golden Lions
Posts: 265
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Post by Carl W. on Aug 20, 2014 9:00:50 GMT -5
Hi Sam,
That picture of your grandfather as a recently liberated POW is a true gem. I think I can explain the uniforms. All of the men pictured are wearing a mix of US and British gear. The soldier named ´Pinkie´ is wearing a British P40 jacket and trousers, but a standard issue US trouser belt. The hat he is wearing looks similar to what the Serbian prisoners sometimes had. Perhaps a trade for a cigarette ration? Soldier 'Day' seems to be the only one wearing a full US GI uniform (M41 jacket, wool shirt and trousers and an A-4 Mechanics wool cap). He also seems to be holding a German bag of some sort, most likely a pickup from back in Stalag IXB. Your grandfather is also wearing a full British P40 uniform, but has retained his US GI wool cap and his US made Buckle Boots. The soldier 'Manuel' wears a US Mackinaw "Jeep coat" but what appears to be a British beret. The two others 'Bruno' and 'Frankie' are also wearing a full British P40 uniform. 'Bruno' also has a US wool knit cap. All of the men are seen holding a US made ditty bag holding PX rations. It is likely that all of the men pictured are Americans.
Most of the GI prisoners had been wearing the same uniform for months, since their capture in December. In other Stalags, such as IVB, POWs were sometimes issued a replacement uniform by the Germans. This could have been the case at XIB, as there were many British and Commonwealth troops there. After months in a POW camp, uniforms were dirty, worn out and infested with lice. In most cases they were burned upon liberation and therefore some were issued with replacement uniforms by the British Army before they were evacuated. From the date of the picture (18 April 1945), two days after the liberation of Stalag XIB, the men were most likely at a collecting point for Recovered Allied Personnel waiting for a plane to Le Havre. When the liberated POWs arrived in cigarette camps around Le Havre, the US Quartermaster issued them another uniform (Ike Jacket, trousers, wool overcoat, field jacket etc).
Now, about your question of US troops interacting with other nationalities at Stalag XIB. US POW's were a minority at Fallingbostel. There were 466 Americans out of a total of almost 50,000 POWs. Most of the POWs at the camp were British and Commonwealth troops, among whom many of the para's who were captured in September 44 during the failed Operation Market Garden in Holland. At Fallingbostel there were men from all nationalities: Belgians, French, ... From what I've read the US POW's were in the same enclosure as the British and Commonwealth troops. There were other compounds for the Russians, Italians.
Was your grandfather at Stalag XIB for his entire time as a POW? I'm just curious because the Stalag was usually a transit camp, where POWs were registered and sent to other camps.
Greetings
Carl
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Post by samhodges on Aug 25, 2014 19:45:49 GMT -5
Carl,
Thank you so much for the explanation of the uniforms and your very informative description. I am not sure if my Grandfather was in any other camps other than Stalag XIB or not. The best I can tell from the MIA telegram is dated Jan.1, 1945 (Print is faded very bad.), not sure of time between accountability and telegram. He died in 1967 before I was born (1969) and he didn't speak about his Battle of Bulge experience or POW experience so no one knows. I have heard a story from the family that he tried to steal some blankets from the Germans while he was a POW and when the Germans caught him they butt stroked him in the head with a rifle which caused a very serious head injury that years later lead to his the brain tumor in which he died. I hope that one day someone will recognize him or his name and maybe can tell me more about his military service. Thanks again Carl for your interest and help please let me know if you find anything else.
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Post by jrwentz on Jan 29, 2015 8:18:01 GMT -5
This message applies to not only the 423rd but any unit that had a member who went through Limburg. I have read no less than 30 accounts of just members of the 423rd that talk about the allied bombing when they were in the rail cars at Limburg. Some say it was the 23rd and some say it was the 24th. My thinking is that if there was a bombing on both days some of the men (at least the ones that were bombed on the 23rd) would have talked about being bombed twice. Does anyone have any insight as to which day is correct and/or if there were 2 bombings. My father, Wm. J. Wentz 423rd, CO M, was there, December 23, 1944. I have reviewed various official accounts and know of only the one bombing. It was at night, so that might lead to confusion. Battle of the Bulge - www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/091002-F-1234S-019.jpgRailroad yard near Limburg, Germany, struck by 9th Air Force light and medium bombers on Dec. 23, 1944, the first day of good weather during the Battle of the Bulge. Unfortunately, since the rail cars were not marked per the Geneva Convention, Allied POWs in transit sometimes lost their lives in rail attacks. (U.S. Air Force photo)  |
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Post by jrwentz on Apr 13, 2022 1:46:51 GMT -5
Roster of Heavy Weapons Company M, Third Battalion, 423rd Regiment 1944
This roster was tucked inside the pages of my father's copy of "St. Vith - Lion in the Way". It appears that it was sent to him by Clyde T. Eliis. Note that Clyde's name has a check mark, while the other names were marked with an X. Also, the hand-written note on the right side of tha page is signed "Ellis". The marked names are likely people Dad met with after the war, and/or people on his Christmas card list. Dad attended a number of the Conventions and also traveled around the country to visit people he served with in the 106th or the 144th earlier in the war. The print quality is not very high because I had to reduce quality to make the file small enough to upload, < 1mb. Roster423rdCoM.pdf (837.57 KB)
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