|
Post by connie on May 16, 2009 11:35:56 GMT -5
The subject has come up in comments on the books.* When it was learned that two regiments of the division had ended up surrendering and were German POW's, there was shock disbelief back home followed by the next predictable stage of grief: anger and blame. Some speculation and blame was laid where it most definitely did not belong. Once such speculation is substituted for fact and makes its way into print, it takes on a life of its own. Neither sentimentality nor speculation belong here. The cold hard facts, when researched, speak for themselves. Now is the time to confront misrepresentations and replace them with facts. Even before the war was over, men in the division who were still in combat situations were eagerly reading any accounts of their activity sent from home. On February 11th my father (field artillery) wrote home that he would like to see the Indiana clippings on the 106th. He then added a line (one word of which I can't make out) that said in effect: "Drew Pearson's earlier (account?) was written by a sensationalist on a subject about which he knew next to nothing." I don't know if we need to dignify that account by quoting it here (open to to discussion on that), but if anyone has copy on that or other misrepresentations, I'd like copy. You can send it to me without posting it simply by hitting on the icon to the left of this writing. It should give you a place to write that is labeled "personal message" or something to that effect. I hope that the facts that will be posted here and under other threads in "for the record" add to the cause of setting the record straight. Clearly, it was a fact that portions of the division continued to fight on in the names of those who could not. And, they knew and understood the facts of the surrender, perhaps better than the men who were surrendered. Those working supply knew that the supply routes had been cut off. The drivers of the last ammo train for the 590th field artillery, sent out late in the afternoon of December 16th, would never return to their unit. (They, too would become POW's) The men of the Service Battery knew that they had been rationed on their daily ammunition supply and that there would be little to spare. But, the roads were taken. Neither food, ammunition, nor water were getting through. And, they knew that with the fog, air drops had not happened. How helpless they must have felt with troops needing supplies out there and no way for them to get those supplies to them. But, their helplessness was soon replaced by their own fight for survival. By the 17th the German troops were already overrunning sites beyond the infantry, and beyond the field artillery units. I'll add more to this note later. I need to move into my day! * For related discussion under "Books" see the second post under this thread: 106thdivision.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=books&action=display&thread=126and also the discussion under this thread: 106thdivision.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=books&action=display&thread=170
|
|
|
Post by Larry Heider on May 16, 2009 23:10:05 GMT -5
I recently came across an email that was in my 106th computer folder. I hadn't read it since it was first posted by Jim West on the Indiana Military Website 4 years ago. I didn't recognize the significance of the stories back then because I was fairly new to the history of the 106th. and didn't know about the controversy surrounding them. It contains several newsprint articles written shortly after the Battle of the Bulge came to an end. They happen to address the very same topic you bring up Connie. The controversy revolving around who or what was to blame for not stopping the German thrust into Belgium in mid December arose quickly (and predictably) in the upper echelons of the US Army as staff officers scrambled to point fingers. Here is an excerpt from one of the articles: "Under the same news policy, S.H.A.E.F. has so far refused to clear up the question of changes in the alied high command – if any. American newspapers have been printing statements from neutral capitals that Field Marshal Montgomery has been named deputy supreme commander. S.H.A.E.F. now is passing the buck on releasing any confirmation or denial or reports on American causalities to the 12th army group, which is subordinate to S.H.A.E.F. and subject to S.H.A.E.F. orders. The Germans already have claimed that four American divisions, including the 106th, were destroyed. The 106th was the last division trained at Camp Atterbury. Six others cut were in the Nazi smash through Belgium and Luxembourg, the Germans claimed. Some 30,000 prisoners were taken alone and the number of dead and wounded ranged even higher, German accounts said. Whether these figures were pure propaganda or not, the German command obviously knows how many prisoners it has captured and how many dead it has recovered. It probably could make a shrewd guess as to how many dead and wounded were taken away by the retreating Americans. But supreme headquarters still bans any detailed disclosure of causalities. It persists in this policy despite the fact that Americans at home have been told that production and draft calls will have to be increased. This, the high command says, is necessary to replace losses suffered in the counter-offensive. The lid on this perhaps darkest side of the German counter-offensive was lifted just slightly at a press conference yesterday by Brig. Gen. Anthony C. McAuliffe. Gen. McAuliffe disclosed that one unit at Bastogne known as the “Snafu” – army slang for “situation normal, all fouled up” – was comprised of stragglers of American units from the break-through front. They had been dispersed by the enemy thrust and forced t make a fighting and by no means always organized retreat. Censorship prevents disclosure of the units represented in the “Snafu,” though they must be known to the Germans through the capture of prisoners. Another faint hint of the size of the causality lists was provided by the stories of two enlisted men. One said there were only 14 men lest out of his platoon of 43 at the end of 35 miles of successive retreats. The other soldier said his company lost all but 35 men out of the original 130. Whether these figures were typical of what happened to whole divisions could be cleared up only by an official over-all causalities statement. Proponents of such a statement argued it would do more to convince the American public of the grimness of the fighting than several speeches or statements in general terms." I think the "passing the buck" comment says it all. If you would like to read the entire article just click on this link which will take you directly to the 106th page at the Indiana Military website: www.IndianaMilitary.org/106ID/SoThinkMenu/106thSTART.htmClick on Publications and Articles in the sidebar; then: Click on Richard Ash Clippings in the sidebar I think that with the approach of Memorial Day, it would be fitting that the bravery and valor of the Golden Lions be recognized by everyone everywhere. What do you think?
|
|
|
Post by dianekrollewis on May 27, 2009 7:41:05 GMT -5
I've been reading Drew Pearson's Washington Merry Go Round Columns from December 16-44 to January 21-45. He cited intelligence reports that the German Army's regrouping had been reported to HQ by pilots a week before the counter-offensive, but those reports were ignored by the High Command as merely a sign of retreat. (Something my mother always told me). He also commented that apparently German Intelligence must have been better, because they were aware that the troops they faced had been in the ETO only a short time and were not combat veterans. Another report cited Omar Bradley as having rushed forward too far ahead of his supply lines, while Field Marshal Montgomery waited for his supply lines to catch up.
I did not find the reports that the 106th had been decimated. (Although I am aware that the 422nd and the 423rd regiments were in fact either killed or POW's. The 424th seems to be the only regiment that managed to retain some of its men.
Later, in 1954, there was a HUGE disagreement between then Sen Joe McCarthy and Drew Pearson concerning the trials of the SS men at Malmedy. They were tried at a military court at Dachau, but McCarthy insisted they were not SS, but green recruits whose confessions were coerced by abuse from the Allies....I could not find the text where Pearson proposed or denounced this theory....but it was a theory rabidly supported by McCarthy. Pearson denounced McCarthy's witch hunts in almost every column in the 1954-55. (The Nazi soldiers involved at Malmedy were SS troops, and to my meager knowledge, they were considered elite troops and were convicted of war crimes.)
Can I separate the facts from the fiction? Not really. I've heard so much all of my life that I can only pass on what I've heard, and what I've since read.
|
|
|
Post by floydragsdale on May 27, 2009 12:15:49 GMT -5
Hello:
In basic training, and also later on. I recall a lesson in keeping the facts straight.
Our squad of eleven men received an oral message and it was whispered down, to each individual member, from the first man to the last man.
By the time the last Squad member got the message only one word was left in the original message. The word was "and"
I've read many reports about the B.O.B. and have wondered about the source of information and its' accuracy.
I've seen articles that claimed "106th Division troops ran, in fear of the German Army.
I was there during the action. Yes, we withdrew, yet in the beginning our orders were to "hold your positions at all costs", and we did until we were ordered to withdraw; then such action was methodical. We didn't run!
The B.O.B. was a tremendous affair involving many units on both sides.
No wonder there were so many varied tales written about it, and so much finger pointing.
There always will be Monday Moring quarter backs, pointing fingers and rewriting history.
Even those of us who were there have our own story to tell.
I have my story and stick to it because I was a witness and took part in making history. Another G.I. in my outfit has his story too and it will not be the same as mine!
Floyd, 2nd Btn., 424th Regiment
|
|
|
Post by dianekrollewis on May 27, 2009 13:27:27 GMT -5
oh Floyd......at no time was any of my commentary meant to disparage the facts you presented. However...in the original post, Connie requested info on Drew Pearson's comments about the Bulge.......and that was the thread I followed. This was the comment..
" He then added a line (one word of which I can't make out) that said in effect: "Drew Pearson's earlier (account?) was written by a sensationalist on a subject about which he knew next to nothing." I don't know if we need to dignify that account by quoting it here (open to to discussion on that), "
I then referred to the actual columns posted between 12-17-44 and 1-20-45.....and then the uproar created by Sen McCarthy's outrageous claims about Malmedy in 1954. My problem is that McCarthy's claims are actually posted as fact in Wikipedia....even though his claims were rebuffed by the full Senate.
As for Drew Pearson, at least 2 different books bear out the same fact. The Intelligence gathered was that the Nazi's were regrouping, but those reports were ignored or misinterpreted by the High Command who never considered the Germans would pose a counter-offense. That the 106th lacked winter clothing and that supply lines had been cut off for the 422nd (my Dad's regiment) and the 423rd. Those two regiments were in fact decimated, (my father's men were all POW's) with stragglers joining the 424th at St Vith.
Your own valor by serving there, and holding your positions can never be denied, and I never meant to say anything disparaging.
Myself.......I was born into the 106th Division at Fort Jackson in 1943. In fact, I just stumbled on the hospital bill. a 12 day stay for my mom and me came to a whopping $21.00.
|
|
|
Post by floydragsdale on May 27, 2009 21:40:17 GMT -5
Diane:
I wasn't offended by what you wrote, or quoted.
All of the finger pointing and blame back then was disgusting to many of us who were in the B.O.B.
It was quite some time before many of us realized what we (106th men) had been through. We thought, for a time, that we had let the U.S. Army down. Also, being green troops, we thought that B.O.B. was just normal combat.
We didn't realize that we were outnumbered by 10 German Soldiers to one of our Soldiers. We also didn't know that the 106th men were spread out over 27 miles of front line; five miles was normal for a Division to cover.
The Ardennes Forest was not, and still isn't a fit location for large scale warfare; yet it happened in the winter of 44-45; also, I accept the "Calculated Risk Therry that our Top Generals have used.
Twenty-twenty hind-sight is always better that twenty-twenty foresight.
Politicians and news media people are always trying to pin the tale on another Donkey. In this day and age, I have little respect for any of them as they distort the truth.
I'm not offended by what you are trying to find out - - - I'm offended by people who were, and probably still are trying to point fingers and blame at someone for something they did, or didn't do.
The dead are still dead, and many soldiers who were wounded still carry the scares. Actual history, in spite of our news media, and politicians cannot be changed.
You are only trying to find the truth. It's a shame that it is so difficult to accomplish that these days.
Sorry to be so carried away.
Floyd 2nd Btn. 424th Regiment.
|
|
|
Post by dianekrollewis on May 28, 2009 7:55:52 GMT -5
Thank you Floyd. Personally, I still feel some bitterness. The official date of the death of my father was Dec 21, 1944....at least that's when his body was found and identified. I'm probably still looking for someone to blame...and it always comes back to the generals in everything I've read. The 106th was put on the front line, with no combat experience, and few supplies, because of ignored or misinterpreted intelligence. I believe the men went through hell, and every last soldier involved is a hero to me, and not one was expendable. I'm so very glad, however, that many did survive, and I learn something new each day because of their memories. Thank You.
|
|
|
Post by floydragsdale on May 28, 2009 10:50:12 GMT -5
Diane:
Maybe I can help clear you mind a little.
When a Soldier died in a hospital, recording the date wasn't a problem.
When a Soldier died in battle that was another matter, or story. Designated members of an outfit were responsible for recording casualties. Mistakes were made, unintentionally so.
Example #1. I was taken off a battlefield in an ambulance & taken to an aid station & then on to a hospital. No one witnessed that. Consequently, I was listed as "missing" until someone reported "the last time I saw him (me), he was crawling away under his own power, Thus, was listed as a deserter at our Company H.Q.
That was my "official" status when I returned to our company from the hospital. I was removed from the status as a deserter when my medical papers caught up with me several days later. Had those medical papers not caught up with me, I would have been in trouble because of what one person said.
Example #2. In the early days of the B.O.B. a Soldier in a foxhole, next to mine, was killed by enemy artillery fire. The very next day our Company was ordered to withdraw from our battle stations. It was a short notice (no advance warning); we had to leave our heavy weapons behind and the dead as well.
When it became time to account for every one I was asked about Pvt. Schultz, the man next to me who was killed. Several other men who knew about the incident reported what they were aware of. There were different reports as to how Pvt. Schultz died & when he died. I don't know what was finally recorded but they had different answers from five or six people.
Finally, several times I refused a purple heart because my wounds were "just minor ones", My stay in the Hospital isn't recorded on my service records either, I'm told.
For the past few years I've tried to get a purple heart, yet they turn me down every time I try.I was too soon dumb and too late smart. Yes, like every one else, the Army made mistakes. Getting them corrected isn't easy.
|
|
|
Post by dianekrollewis on May 28, 2009 11:27:35 GMT -5
9. From Dad's men, I am aware he actually was killed 12-16-44, but the official date is from identification, and is on his grave marker.
Apparently, you're not the only one able to receive the Purple Heart. I know battlefield records are sketchy at times, but there is no reason this system should be so difficult for combat veterans. I am sorry, and I hope that the recognition will come.
|
|
Carl W.
Active Member
Administrator
The Golden Lions
Posts: 265
|
Post by Carl W. on May 28, 2009 15:19:36 GMT -5
10. Floyd,
I wonder if your stay in the hospital was listed in your unit's After Action Reports. There must be a way to get hold of a document stating your WIA in helping you get you long deserved Purple Heart.
|
|
|
Post by floydragsdale on May 28, 2009 20:08:44 GMT -5
11.
Diane:
When you were born at Ft. Jackson, TN I was more than likely at Camp Shelby, MS with the 65th Inf. Div.
The $21 Hospital bill you mentioned is the exact pay a Private in the Army got in the early stages of the Draft.
Your Dad and Private Schultz, from my outfit. probably have something in common regarding their death dates. The actual date recorded for them is incorrect. Even though Pvt. Schultz was within yards of me when he died the Army didn't (couldn't because of circumstances) record it until several weeks later. Several other men in our outfit named a different death date for him. The majority might rule; however, they are not always right.
I have submitted evidence to the Gov. (who ever they are) that I was in the Hospital and had been wounded, nevertheless, it still isn't on my service record, consequently, the replies I receive are always "No Evidence Exist on your records to support your claim. - - - I give up trying. A least it can be a conversation piece - - - once in a while.
By the way, I was assigned to the 106th Division in early September 1944; just weeks before going overseas with them.
Floyd
|
|
|
Post by dianekrollewis on May 31, 2009 12:32:30 GMT -5
12.
Hi Floyd......that was Ft Jackson SC. Domestically, Dad went from Ft Dix to Camp Croft to Fort Benning, to Fort Jackson to Tenn Manuevers, and the Camp Atterbury. He went overseas mid-October. Contact ...Robersabel@aol.com....he's looking into why it's so difficult for the POW's to get the Purple Heart also.
|
|
|
Post by connie on Jun 10, 2009 11:19:24 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by floydragsdale on Jun 10, 2009 20:57:22 GMT -5
14. Hello:
In defense of the 422nd & 423rd Regiments surrendering!
When there is no more amunition, food & water, also, the regiments were surrounded by 10 Germans to one of theirs and, have had little or no sleep for over 24 hours, what are the choices?
The last ditch stand, in make believe Hollywood movies, makes saints out of dying men and heros out of the survivors.
In real life it would have been whosale slaughter! - - - which would have given "after the fact" Arm chair Generals plenty of amunition to scream about and would have made seven foot head-lines in the news papers & radio news.
The Commanding officers of the 422nd & 423rd Regiments could see the handwriting on the wall and made a very wise decision to surrender their Regiments. That choice saved thosands of lives in those two units of the 106th Division.
Floyd, 2nd Btn. 424th Regiment
|
|
|
Post by gfgrant8443 on Jun 10, 2009 22:23:46 GMT -5
15. Floyd
I generally don't try to get up on my soap box often. but my father was in HQ Co. 3rd Batt. of the 422nd and I would invite anyone to say that being wounded in both legs on 12-19-44, enduring the threat of German doctors wanting to amputate both his legs, and surviving Stalag 4-B and Buchenwald somehow made him a quiter then I don't know what the definition of a hero is. I'm glad that your willing share your thoughts and have the greatest admiration for men like yourself that made it possible for me to live in freedom like I am able to. Thank you.
Frank Grant
|
|
|
Post by connie on Aug 19, 2010 11:11:31 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by connie on Oct 22, 2010 12:44:09 GMT -5
17. POW heros
I agree completely with Frank. While those from the division who were not captured, continued to fight military battles, those taken captive had other battles to fight. Someone spoke of the courage it took for their commander to surrender. It did. And those who were surrendered fought daily the battle to survive and to maintain hope. Battles fought while free are tough. But those fought by the men who had lost their freedom were at least as tough. Courage and fortitude, whatever the circumstances, are the marks of heroes. The circumstances of the 106th division provided space for many unsung heros on both sides of the barbed wire.
Connie
|
|
|
Post by connie on Apr 4, 2013 12:33:12 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by connie on May 30, 2013 11:15:11 GMT -5
Just added another link under the list of Division Histories in "Useful Links," but I think note of this link belongs here, too. Against All Odds The Story of the 106th Infantry Division in the Battle of the Bulge, a thesis presented to San Jose State University by Joseph Martin Giarrusso in 1998: www.giarrusso.net/files/against_all_odds.pdfThe opening paragraphs state things that are commonly accepted now but, unfortunately, were not common knowledge early on: The second & third paragraphs of the introduction to this thesis notes: " Research on this subject reveals that neither the men nor officers of the 106th Infantry Division were to blame directly for the largest loss of an American unit in history. Instead, failure by Allied intelligence, a loosening of military structure and a belief by Allied Command that the war would be over shortly because Germany could no longer mount any real offensive operations, lead to their misinterpreting or ignoring many tell-tale signs that a German offensive was building."In addition, this thesis looks at the effects of the 106th’s stubborn resistance on the German assault timeline that helped give the Allies time to regroup for defense and mount a counter-offensive.I'm off to read the rest of this thesis... Has anyone else on the discussion board read this document?
|
|
|
Post by connie on Jun 26, 2013 10:02:17 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by connie on Oct 6, 2013 19:36:47 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by connie on Nov 22, 2015 4:59:14 GMT -5
|
|