Gustave Walter LaBorie- Hq 1-424th

[oldfrenchy]

As a new member to the board, just wishing a Happy New Year to all!
I am seeking information on my Dad who was a member of the 106th and saw action as a 2nd Lt. in the Bulge during December 1944.

My brother has already posted a message regarding the Winterspelt action of Dec. 16th, 1944. I am attaching a couple of photos, and his separation document to ald in identifying him to anyone. I think the group photo was of other 2nd Lt.s taken at Camp Atterbury in 1944. The single photo has Dad standing by a specific barrack- can someone identify it?
Not having a military background myself I sometimes don't know what I'm looking at.
Thanks for your help!

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[oldfrenchy]

The other pics:

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[oldfrenchy]

And the Separation doc:

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[oldfrenchy]

Here are links to PhotoBucket for better resolution pics:

s674.photobucket.com/albums/vv104/OldFrenchy/GWL%20army%20photos/?action=view¤t=Separationdoc1.jpg

i674.photobucket.com/albums/vv104/OldFrenchy/GWL%20army%20photos/img030.jpg

i674.photobucket.com/albums/vv104/OldFrenchy/GWL%20army%20photos/img022.jpg


Daniel LaBorie

[Carl W.]

Hi Daniel

A big welcome to you and your brother.
The pictures you have posted as well as the Separation Doc are very interesting.

From what I can derive from the document, your father was the S-4 (Supply) officer for the 1st Battalion of the 424th Infantry Regiment. He was a member of the HQ&HQ Company.

The individual picture of your father, to my knowledge, is not taken at Atterbury but at another US Army camp. The buildings at Atterbury were white. Also, I seem to notice a unit insignia for the 6th Coastal Artillery Regiment, Battery C, 3rd Platoon on the wall. Perhaps this picture was taken before your father was assigned to the 106th division. His separation document also state him as having participated in the Papuan Campaign in the Pacific Theatre of Operations. This battle took place in 1942 and is a very interesting fact to say the least.

I also see that your father served in the National Guard from November 1941 onwards so perhaps the picture was taken during that timespan?

The group picture looks like Fort Jackson to me. The buildings at Camp Atterbury were distictly different. The picture was then probably taken in 1943 as the 106th division was activated at Fort Jackson in March.

Did your father tell any stories about his experiences in the Battle of the Bulge?


Happy Newyear and best regards from Belgium,
Carl

[floydragsdale]

Hello Dan:

The 424th Regiment of the 106 Division was the Regiment I was in; from the last of Aug. 44 to the end of the WWII & more.


I notice that he didn't serve in Northern France with the 424 Regiment, in the Brest Peninsula. Probably he was wounded in the B.O.B. and therefore wasn't able to serve in Northern France.

The photo of your Dad, I believe was taken very early in the War. The sigh in back of your Dad reads "3rd Platoon of a cannon Company. That may have been the outfit he was in before he went to the Pacific Theater of operations. His spepreation papers state he served in the Pacific Theater. He is wearing his Winter Clothes, plus a field jacket. It probably was in the Fall, or early Spring. I remember nothing but white buildings at Camp Atterbury.

The buildings in the group picture, I don't believe, are in Camp Atterbury. His separation papers show that he went to O.S.C. School (Officer Candidate School). Perhaps the photo was taken when they completed their O.C.S. Schooling, During WWII that was a 90 day course. Enlisted men used to call a man who was fresh from O.C.S. School "A 90 day wonder". Ft. Benning, GA is where most men attended O.C.S.

Some men served very early in the Pacific Theater of Operations; then they were returned to the states for R. & R. Next, they were reassigned to an outfit and shipped to the E.T.O.

His separation papers indicate that he went overseas with the 106th Division and returned home with another unit.

Finally, his separation papers say nothing about his time in The Pacific Theater yet, suggest that he was there and give him credit for it by giving him the ribbons.

Hope this makes sense to you.

Floyd
424th Regiment.

.

[oldfrenchy]

Thanks for the timely responses, Carl and Floyd! You have given me much information regarding his service. I have a bunch of other papers that I found in his effects that I have scanned- from Artillery School to Officers' Candidate School, and a receipt from the gov't for payment for personal items lost during the fight in the Ardennes.
We actually lived in Belgium for a few years in the sixties. I was only nine or ten, but we once went on a trip with old family friends through the forest where he saw action. He pointed out many places, but being a kid, what did I know? I recall the Nuts museum in Bastogne, going to Malmedy and St. Vith, and an Auberge on a river at the border of Germany where he talked of old times with the proprietor. Apparently his group of men were evading the Krauts, ran upstairs and jumped out the back window while the Germans stormed in the front. The last man out the window was hit before he could make it to the woods.
My brother and I think this might be Steinebruck.
Danged if I can remember!
Anyways, I'll try to post those papers if nothing more than for historical interest.

Thanks for your help, gentlemen!

Daniel LaBorie

[oldfrenchy]

Here is a link to A folder in PhotoBucket that contains the scans of Dad's service records:

s674.photobucket.com/albums/vv104/OldFrenchy/GWL%20army%20photos/

Daniel LaBorie

[floydragsdale]

Hello Dan:

Your Dad served, altogether 2 Years and about a month. He was in Europe just about 18 months; He also was in the Pacific Theater of War for 6 months.

His separation papers show that he was in the National Guard. And went on active duty 11 Nov. 1941; almost a month before Pearl Harbor.

Here is what I think! He joined he Guard when he was in college for a few extra dollars in the pocket, or shortly after he gradated; the “Great Depression” wasn’t over yet and jobs still were not plentiful.


Selective Service (the draft) began, I think, in the year 1940. Your Dad certainly was the right age for the draft. Joining the Guard was a much better choice that being drafted. I think the photo of him in front of the 3rd Platoon Building was where his Ntl. Guard unit was located. There is nothing on his uniform to identify any kind of an outfit. His separation papers indicate that he went to A.A. School (Anti Aircraft), O.C.S., School and, Infantry School,- Officers Special Basic #20.

U.S. Army Units were being shipped to the Pacific Theater before Pear Harbor. I know that to be true because a member of our family was in the regular Army and he was sent to the Philippines late in 1940.

I believe your Dad was somewhere in the Pacific Theater before Pearl Harbor (7 Dec. 1941.)

Probably, while he was still States Side, he applied to go to O.C.S. School and, by being (me) familiar with paperwork flow, it took a while for him to be accepted; he was accepted while he was in the Pacific Theater of operations.

He was accepted to go to O.C.S. School, which was probably at Ft. Benning, GA .It appears that he went to O.C.S. School on or after 23 July 1943.

The group photo very likely was taken about the time he “graduated” from Officers Candidate School,; before he was assigned to the 106th Division. The men are not wearing their summer uniforms; so, the photo was most likely taken in the fall of the year, 1943.

According to his separation he went over seas with the 106th Division (27 Oct. 44), however, he didn’t return to the States with them. He returned in March of 45; about a month earlier than I did.


Hope this makes sense to you. I read the separation papers again last night; then came up with these thoughts.

This is an add on as of 1/4/10! Ntl. Guard regulations might have required your Dad to be discharged from his Gaurd Unit before he could legally go to an Army O.C.S. School. The National Guard is a State operated organization. the U.S. Army is a Federally operated system. Hope this makes sense to you.


Floyd,
424 Regiment,
106th Division.

[oldfrenchy]

Thanks for the great update, Floyd.
I never recall my Dad talking about being in the Pacific, but i was wrapped up in my own little world back then.

About 8 years ago I requested replacement medals from the Army and submitted a copy of his separation document. The process took a year, and one day out of the blue an envelope arrived from the Army with the medals that I have pictured. They did not include the Silver Star, which was listed, and there was no one specific person to ask about it. Would there be a reason why they never replaced it? I don't know the protocol.

Thanks-
Daniel LaBorie

[floydragsdale]

Hello Dan:

If there was no mention of the Silver Star with what you received from the Army I'd guess that it was an oversight; in otherwords they missed it.

Here's what I would do if this were my problem: Make copies of the proof that your Dad was awarded the Silver Star; also make copies of what the Army sent to you. Compose a brief letter stating the problem.

Go to your local congressman's office with your evidence and ask for their help.

Every time I have gotten into a war of "words" with the VA, or Army, I have encountered problems; until I wised up. Getting help from your Congressman works, believe me; and in far less time than if you do it on your own. Try it!

There is nothing to lose other than some of your time and effort.

Here's an example! While on the front lines, in 1944, I was exposed to an overwhelming overdose of small arms fire and artillery shells exploding all around me. When things quieted down, my ears didn't feel like they belonged to me. Our company medic said, "It (my problem) will soon go away". It didn't.

The aide station Dr. at Batallion Hq. said, "We can't help you; it will subside in time." It didn't, and I still have the problem. A few years after being discharged from the Army I went to a V.A. clinic seeking help; my "head noise" and hearing were really bothering me. Their reply was, "Sorry, your complaint isn't on your service record, we can't help you."

I put up with this problem for years, until, I learned to go to someone who had some "clout". Goverment B.S. was shoved to one side, and action was taken to help me with the problem. Guess what? It worked!

Hope this helps you.

Floyd

[oldfrenchy]

Thanks, Floyd, for your time and insight.

I'll get my stuff together and give it a shot, and let you know how it transpires (even though I'm a little jaded with government these days....)!

Dan LaBorie

[floydragsdale]

Hello Dan:

I understand what you mean.

I had to bite my tongue and go to a representative of the opposite party, for assistance.

Nevertheless, the results were positive for me.

The bigger the Government, the more red tape we get. It's a bunch of B.S. on paper and, we the taxpayer, have to pay for all the non-productive workers who, literally, get paid for doing nothing.

God luck!

Floyd

[oldfrenchy]

Hello Floyd, Carl, et al!
My brother and I returned from our trip this weekend and had a wonderful time together (unusual for brothers!). From sweden to Belgium the weather was sub-freezing and snowing, which gave us a tiny taste for the hardships the veterans endured during those fateful days.
We toured the areas of engagement along the Our River. Not much changed except for the towering elevated motorway passing by in the near distance. St. Vith, Malmedy and Bastogne were all checked out. There is a fine museum at the Baugnez Crossroads near Malmedy that is a must-see. The museum outside Bastogne was closed, but the American-erected memorial is very impressive.
We were somewhat surprised at the almost surly atitudes of the Belgians.We lived in Belgium for 3 years when we were kids. We speak French and were always respectful, but we couldn't put our finger on it. We encountered a shrug of the shoulders when we made enquiries concerning the Battle or even German occupation. I know it has been sixty years, but really. Our experience in Germany was exactly the opposite, where the Germans we met were open, friendly, and happily accomodating.
I have a few pics. I'll see if I can post 'em.

Daniel LaBorie

[oldfrenchy]

View Leaving Winterspelt.

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[oldfrenchy]

OK- that was wayyyyy too large!

[oldfrenchy]

The Our River at Steinebruck.

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[oldfrenchy]

View leaving Winterspelt.

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[Carl W.]

Hi Daniel

Thanks for sharing those pictures. The snow has melted away now and Belgium is almost completely defrosted. I'm happy to hear that you were able to make a trip overseas with your brother. If you had let me know perhaps we could have met up in the Ardennes somewhere. I'm sorry to hear about your experiences with some of my countrymen. My apologies for that.

It really depends who you ask in that region. Most people are very helpful and are willing to talk freely of their experiences during the war. Some can be more isolated and even surly as you pointed out. Trust me, this is not a general feature with Belgians.

A little background information that might help:
A big part of this Ardennes area was actually German territory till after WWI. People in this area were living in Germany on one day and in Belgium the other day. It's not hard to imagine that some families in this area were more focussed on Germany than Belgium. When the German army invaded in 1940 this area was again made part of Germany and the sons and husbands were enrolled into the German army. Many fought on the Russian front and died. Also, Allied bombings also caused many civilian victims in this area. Towns lay in ruins. Still the general feeling was one of thankfulness for regaining the hard-fought freedom.

65 years have past and with some the remembrance of the 'dark days of december' is starting to fade. Others do not like to talk about it because of particular situations their families have endured. Still, by organisations like the 106th division association and CRIBA we are trying to keep the memory for those who fought for our freedom alive. We will never remember the sacrifices made 65 years ago.


Did any of the places you visited look familiar to the ones your dad pointed out?

Best regards from a thankful Belgian
Carl

[oldfrenchy]

Carl-
A very nice reply, thanks.
I had not noticed that you reside in Belgium- doh! Otherwise I would have arranged a meeting!

I hope I did not offend you with my comments, as no broad-brush assertions were intended. I know there are plenty of Belgians who are warm and gracious. That just happened to be our experience at that time. The wandering border is interesting and tragic all at once. We read that the Allies inexplicably bombed St. Vith 4 times by accident during the confused battle.

I was too small or inattentive to recognize any of the places where my Dad had pointed out. We looked for the Inn where he said he and his platoon escaped the Germans by jumping out the second story window, but only found an Inn at Steinebruck that was built in the sixties.

Here is a picture of the Baugnez Crossroads.

Daniel LaBorie

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[Carl W.]

Hi Daniel

No offence taken at all. I understand your remark very well, I too have had similar experiences with some of my countrymen. However many good experiences make up for it. I wonder, did you ask elderly people or younger people?

The inn where your father's platoon was billeted could very well have been turned into an ordinary house in the last 65 years. Also, many houses were destroyed in the battle and were rebuilt after the war.

Thanks for sharing your travel experiences! If you ever think of revisiting Belgium, just let me know.

Greetings from Belgium
Carl

[floydragsdale]

Hello Dan:

WOW! The picture of Winterspelt took me back to the B.O. B. days right now. My minds eye can visualize the foxholes, also the dragons teeth tank traps that were in the distance; they were probably 500 to 1000 yards in front of our lines. The snow makes it all the more vivid in my mind.

The hazy, foggy weather reminds me of December 1944. Lacking of course, is the battle smoke and the sounds of war; and the voices of German Officers shouting orders to their men. However, my memory brings it all back.

Many Soldiers died there, German and American, some, who's acts of heroism are known only to God.

What our politicians have done to our county since those years is an insult to what so many American Soldiers died for.

Floyd

[connie]

Hi, Daniel,

One thing I didn't see mentioned above (but maybe I missed it as I skimmed) was the fact that soldiers got whole new identities when they became officers. I know this from looking through my father's records. Dad enlisted when faced with the peacetime draft in January of 1941. He, too, spent time in the Pacific. He had been tapped for OCS while waiting to ship out. But when the orders to go came, he was sent to the Pacific and OCS was placed on hold.

When OCS was successfully completed, his old identity as a sergeant was given a discharge. And, he assumed a new identity as an officer with a new serial number.

One other possibility to ponder. Somewhere I think you mentioned that your dad went to Field Artillery OCS, not infantry. If this is the case, he may have gone somewhere other than the place mentioned by Floyd. I don't know if there was more than one Field Artillery OCS. Dad went to Field Artillery OCS at Fort Sill, Oklahoma. (I checked the list of names in Dad's graduating class. It would have been nice if your dad had happened to be in that one. No such luck.)

Connie

[oldfrenchy]

Floyd- My brother and I also felt priveleged to have visited the area when the weather was comparable to what you tough sob's had to have experienced. We marvelled at the hard cold and how anyone could have endured those days of screaming meemies, hot shrapnel and icy snow. And yes, it is a disgrace today to see how our congress behaves.

Connie- thanks for the additional insight as to promotions. I'll have to look into it further.

Daniel LaBorie