Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)

[connie]

This term wasn't even invented yet in WWII, but the experience has been with human kind long before it was named and before we began to understand it. During WWII, the symptoms were sometimes known as "shell shock" or "battle fatigue." With what the men of the 106th experienced, there was reason for everyone to experience shock, loss, grief... memories that would rather be left behind. I don't know the lines experts draw in the continuum of reactions to traumatic events. Sometimes it doesn't matter. The pain is as real as the original trauma. No one knows why some are afflicted with yet another layer of trauma. It has nothing to do with strength. I've read that up to 30% of people coming from a combat zone will experience different levels of full blown PTSD. If I'm understanding this correctly, those with PTSD live with more than just horrifying memories. Triggers that catch them off guard can transport them to a place where they are forced to relive the experience.

A West Wing episode I saw recently, dealt with PTSD being experienced by a shooting victim. The thing they mentioned there that I have not heard mentioned elsewhere was a bitter taste as a triggered PTSD episode took hold. They explained that the taste was caused by the adrenaline kicking in. West Wing may not be a medical site, but they did their research well enough to make me take notice. It would be interesting to know if anyone has found medical confirmation of this or has experienced this symptom.

I have heard that WWII vets are still being diagnosed with PTSD. This does not surprise me. We asked young men to experience horrible things. The 106th had it about a bad as anyone. And, I doubt there was much help or support available. I hope there is not a vet out there who is uncomfortable with acknowledging the experience. It is an unfair wound that keeps re-wounding. It is real and it is not a sign of weakness.

There are plenty of web sites about this. I'll paste in one from the Mayo Clinic. www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/post-traumatic-stress-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20355967

PS. Some conversations in Tough To Remember under Remembering/ Thinking Aloud also come close to this topic
106thdivision.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=remembering&action=display&thread=109

[floydragsdale]

Hello:

Men in our Company had it (had shell shock)! They could be recognized by their looks, and their actions. They were not suitable for combat duty anymore.

Nevertheless, the Army Medics sent them back for more front line service.

I recall one man in particular, a platoon Sgt; he was not capable of front line duty and was treated like a baby.

Some men with "battle fatigue" had a blank look on their faces and kept repeating the same thing over & over again. Other men didn't say a word; they just sat (or stood) and stared into space.

An Officer once told me, "We are losing a thousand men a day." The Bulge was three or four weeks old then & the Army was desperate for replacements. He went on to tell me that "We figure we have a division on the front lines, one going to the hospital, one coming back from the hospital and one in the grave."

An infantry soldiers chances of becoming a causalty, "up front during battle" were about 90% certain.

I don't recall seeing a Soldier who had "battle fatigue" recover from it. It was sad to witness a his personality being torn to shreds with "Battle Fatigue, Shell Shock, or whatever name they want to call it. The Army Medics would keep them for a few days; then send them right back to the front lines. - - - It was a sad thing to see.

When the "Bulge" began, the German Outfits thrown at us numbered a half a million men. Five American Divisions were facing them. The 106th was right in the middle of it. That was about sixty thousand Soldiers facing five-hundred thousand of the enemy.

It's a wonder more men didn't get "Battle Fatigue.

Floyd,

2nd Btn., 424th Regiment

[connie]

Thank you, Floyd.

There is nothing quite as real as seeing what was seen by a soldier who was there.

In checking out the 106th site by John Kline I found that his book list included some on this subject, including: Healing the Child Warrior, written by a member of the 106th: 106thdivision.proboards.com/post/1638/thread

Outside the clinical definition of PTSD, I have to believe that every person there felt the impact of what he experienced. Some still have flashbacks. For others there are painful or repressed memories and the normal range of grief reactions. I remember a friend who had gone through a terrible trauma and felt fearful because there was a period of time that just seemed lost to her. Some moments or even days around the time of the trauma were a complete blank to her. Her doctor reassured her that this was normal. She was not losing her mind. In fact this was part of her own natural defense mechanisms.

A psychologist friend of mine spoke of "state related learning." As I understand what she said, she spoke of some things that seem to be mentally filed away under the emotional state in which they were learned -- only to be recalled when that state is replicated. She gave an example. She was trying to access a bank account, but could not recall the code. She could give social security numbers and dozens of other pieces of information that proved she was the person to whom the account belonged. But the bureaucrat she was working with would not give her access without the code word. That code word had been assigned to her during the trauma surrounding the untimely death of her husband. She is an individual who has a quick mind for remembering numbers and codes. But, this was a complete blank. However, as discussions with the bureaucrat became increasingly frustrating, she found herself in an escalating state of agitation. Suddenly, she was back in the same emotional frame of mind she had been in when the code was learned. And, there it was. She knew it.

I bring this up because it may provide a bit of insight. PTSD is one injury suffered by soldiers. But, like the fragments that flew, killing some, wounding others, and scratching others, there was probably a continuum of emotional pain and injury -- all normal, but sometimes frightening reactions to the the trauma of war.

Beyond that I know little. Those, like Floyd, who were there and have lived thru the years since can speak to the realities.

[floydragsdale]

Hello Again:

It was fifty to fifty-five years that WWII bothered me! Yet, a finger couldn't be put on the real problem; the War!

I was a bundle of nerves, to say the least, There were problems getting to sleep nights; then there were dreams, crazy ones; they had me back in the service again. Getting back to sleep wsn't easy for fear of experiencing another crazy dream!

At one point during the "Bulge" I was right in the middle of some intense artillery fire, then small arms fire. When the day ended my ears had a ring to them that really bothered me, partucularly when all was quiet. A company medic said to me, "You'll get over that!", however, the noise didn't go away. Several days later I was at the Btn. Aide Station asking about the problem, and they said, "We can't help you!"

Many years ago, a trip to the VA seeking help didn't work either. They said, "Sorry you don't qualify for our services because your complaint isn't on your service record." That same "head noise" is with me to this day! I can almost pin-point the day, in 1944, when the problem began.

During combat a Soldier will see and experience situations that are unforgettable. They may lay, dormant, in your mind for years, then in a flash something triggers the mind and memories come back like a video tape that has recorded the event.

Shortly after being discharged from the Army, a loud noise "bang" made me hit the dirt, or duck behind the nearest tree. What else does one do when they are accustom to being shot at?

I finally won my "struggle" with the VA.

Now I have a "hearing aide" and a lifetime of "free" batteries. For the first time in over fifty years I can hears the birds in my back yard chirping away; and at night, the crickets and frogs make their presense known to me wth a chous that is very pleasant to my ears.

A few years ago, someone eccouraged me to write my War Memories. That is when I disvovered what had been bothering me all these years. I didn't want to deal with that, my mind told me.

Nevertheless, I met the challenge, and re-lived the years from basic training to the end of the War and to the day of being discharged from the Army.

I've never been in jail, however the feeling of being released from prision almost overwhelmed me when I finished.

Would I do anything different, if the opportunity was given to me?

No! Once is enough!

Who would want to go through a war experience twice? Your mind does that for you anyway.

Floyd
2nd Btn., 424th Infantry

[connie]

Floyd,

In openly discussing what you have experienced, you have undoubtedly given a gift to others. Generations to follow may better understand. And, you've opened a door to discussion for others.

I had a note recently from a widow, married to a vet post WWII. The usual quote was there, " He never talked about the war." She went on to say that he did have nightmares all his life. Another wife of a vet told me that the annual division reunions had meant so much. This was told with the voice almost of conspiracy. I knew she meant quietly to tell me that here, with others who had been there, was the one place he could talk and heal. And, I have heard stories of others hitting the ground at the sound of a loud noise or finding something unexpectedly triggered a replay of a moment in Belgium. How would it be possible to experience the things that young men experienced then, and not to feel the impact forever?

One fellow admitted that the reason he did not like talking about the war was that talking would trigger something that brought back the nightmares. As you worked through the "writing it all down" process that brought you freedom, did you find that nightmares were triggered or that things got worse for a while before they got better?

Because we have seen strong, determined, capable men who managed to lead normal, productive lives despite the wounds they carry silently, we have no idea the battles that still go on.

It is a sad statement that vets then had to battle for help with war injuries, seen and unseen. I'm glad you finally got the hearing help you need. You paid a huge price for those "free" batteries. I am so glad that birds sing for you again.

[floydragsdale]

Hello Connie:

I don't quite understand this question: "As you worked through the "writing it all down" process that brought you freedom, did you find that nightmares were triggered or that things got worse for a while before they got better?"

Before leaving Germany, after hostilities ceased, the Army was desperate for men to reenlist. A recruiting officer practically begged me to re-enlist. He said, "I'll see to it that you will be promoted to 1st Sgt. by tomorrow morning, and with the pay to go with it.

I had been doing the job of a 1st Sgt. but getting a corporal's pay; even though I was wearing the stripes of a Sgt. That promise certainly tempted me to follow through on it.

Finally, that temptation lured me to tell the recruiting officer I'd accept his offer on one condition. He asked me, "What do yo mean by that"?

My reply was, "I don't want anymore life as an infantry soldier!" He remarked, "We cannot guarantee that! I said to him, "Bye, Bye! I'm going to go home and become a civilian again!

I had a concern about being called again, to fight a war here, and there, then doing front line duty again. I wasn't sure if I could take any more combat again.

That feeling, I think, caused war dreams, night after night; even during the daytime hours I could visualize battle scenes, the dead, wounded and much more. Those things just don't go away.

Floyd

[connie]

Floyd,
I guess that you have shown that it is OK to talk about difficult things. And I have shown that it's OK to ask awkward questions and to do it awkwardly.

Of course the memories of the horrible things you experienced will never go away. And, it's good you stated that clearly for the record.

I think I made the mistake of trying to merge the experiences of two different people and somehow hope that the "answers" one person found would fit another's needs.

One man I knew of was afraid to even speak to his offspring about the war because every time he did, he ended up having his nights interrupted by nightmares.

You spoke of finding a new freedom after writing down your experiences.

I hoped that the two could somehow fit together, and that the freedom you discovered through writing might be a road to release for this other man. I hoped that someone could say that, while the bad memories would remain, the triggering of flashbacks or of nightmares would diminish if the memories were faced openly. I don't have any right even hoping for that answer. I have no knowledge in this field. And, I suspect, as no two people are alike and no two set of wounds are identical; so, too, there are no "one size fits all" answers.

I think probably the only answers for those of us who weren't there and didn't live through it is that we have to respect each individual's timing, needs, and ways of dealing with the past.

I'm glad that writing things down gave you a new sense of freedom, even though it can never erase the terrible memories of all that you went through.

More selfishly, I am so glad that you are willing to share your experiences with us.

Thank you!

Connie

[floydragsdale]

Hello Connie:

Thank you for your reply. You are very kind with your comments, also you have an understanding mind.

Some situations during combat affected the lives of other G.'s. For instance, I made a decision, for the good of the company I thought at the time (& to this day believe that it was the thing to do). That action saved my life; yet it took the life of the other Soldier involved. one hour later, he was K.I.A.

Of 19 men, pinned down by gunfire, I was one of a few to survive the action. Our Company Commander, just yards away from me, was shot through the head. He died several hours later.

My clothes were riddled by machine gun fire; yet I survived the action. A German soldier was just above me, in a tree; yet, I was not aware that he was there. He could have shot me but he didn't.

Artillery shells exploded, sending deadly, jagged pieces of shrapnel in every direction, inflicting ghastly wounds on some and mortally wounding others. Nevertheless, the Infantry Soldier had no choice but to keep going until ________?

When the War was finished veterans went home and all these memories went with them.

What if___________? Or, if I had done things different, would someone else had lived? The cold; the mud, the rain, the snow, the wounded and the dead; that's all history now!

Nevertheless, you remember; it will always be there to come back and haunt the combat Infantry Soldier.

Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, today is a gift; that way it's called the "present."

It's a good thing that the future comes to us just one day at a time.

Bye now,

Floyd
2nd Btn. 424th Regiment

[floydragsdale]

Hello Connie:

Writing about war experiences and reward that followed the task!

The feeling, was I’m positive, like being born again! Suddenly, I saw the war in a different light.

The infantry soldier was like a pawn on a chessboard. He was moved about by a mastermind (army brass) and obeyed orders. His destination was wherever his director wanted him to go.

The infantryman was trained to do this or else (kill or be killed); its either you, or them, they were taught. It was a game and you played it that way, while on maneuvers; when you faced the real thing, there was no other choice.

He had no control over where he went (served); the mastermind moved him to wherever he was needed, as events unfolded at the time.

The life of an infantry soldier was a serious game; there were winners and far too many losers.

The Soldiers (pawns) of the 106th Division were placed in a "calculated risk area". Soon many of the Infantrymen (pawns) were sacrificed, in battle, on the "Alter of War".

The deeds of some (pawns) men were lost in battle; they remain unrecognizable; only history knows who they are!

Some Armchair generals criticized the Calculated Risk decision makers and even the Infantryman (pawns) who faught in the the Battle of the Bulge. There were days when their orders were, "Hold your positions at all costs (stay where you are and fight until your'e dead)!

The Infantry Soldier knows one thing for certain! They swore an oath to defend their country.

They bore the brunt of artillery fire that shook the earth beneath them; they continued on when their flesh and blood said "no more"; they stood in foxholes, gripping their rifles with frostbitten fingers; they waited for the German Infantry & armor to follow when the artillery barrage ceased. They stood their ground and met the enemy face to face.

With the hue and cry of battle over, when the war ended, the infantryman (pawn) sailed for home to resume life as a civilian again.

Like it or not, the memories went home with them.

Duty, honor, country; the soldiers kept their pledge!

They fought for the best government and the best flag that has ever been given man.

What is there to be ashamed for, or feel guilty about? Nothing!

Now the gates of a prison like feeling opened; I walked out and the memories went with me. They'll be there as long as this world is my home!

However, they are stories to be shared, with school children and adult groups; not hidden within me.

Floyd,
2nd Btn., 424th Regiment

[gemcmeg]

I'm sorry i don't have time to read this all thru right now, but wanted to pass along that my dad went to PTS classes thru the VA/Duke hospital here in nc for a few years and it helped SO much! One just being with others who had been thru the same events and two to be finally able to be able to talk about it esp. with folks trained to help them down the path.
I would highly recommend, dad spent time with the va in salem va and here in nc/thru the duke hospital association - just wonderful, wonderful folks. I know it was hard for him to get started thru all the red tape ect, but don't get discouraged - it was so worth it! He got to the point where it became a venture (due to the long drive, esp when he didn't want to "give up the folks in salem" (virginia) after moving to nc,. He so looked forward to spending time with those folks.
ps dad was also a pow adding to the mix

[dianekrollewis]

PTSD......battle fatigue..shell shock........isn't this often referred to as
"the thousand yard stare"? I've probably heard that phrase used
most often, but am uncertain when or where it originated.

[floydragsdale]

Hello Diane:

I've never heard the word, "thousand yard stare"; nevertheless that is a good word for it.

Some soldiers that had "Battle Fatigue" could be looking right at you, yet their face would be expressionless;as if they didn't even notice you.

A thousand yard stare is a good description of a G.I. with battle fatigue!

Floyd

[connie]

Hi,

Perhaps December 16 is a time to renew this discussion. Diane brought up the "1000 yard stare."

Some of the fellows heading for the front lines for the first time mentioned seeing this in the eyes of the experienced combat soldiers they saw moving out. They commented that the men they saw with this stare looked to be about their own age but at the same time looked so much more aged.

But Diane's question about the origin of the term and its relationship to PTSD, etc. sounded like a good question to me.

I went on line and found this Wikipedia site:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thousand-yard_stare

[seaforth]

Very interesting posts. As mentioned elsewhere glad it helped you Floyd.

Seeing three cases close to me i can relate some things.
1 served in yougoslavia and was like you from the moment of return restless insomnia and short tempered. As strange as it seems, looking for relics with his detector on the battlefields of ww2 is actualy calming his mind. The second is simular.

One other wasn't affected in anyway after being in the elite forces in afghanistan and iraque. And probably many more places he can't talk about being a elite.
He returned home and went on with soldiering life. He had seen some gruwesome things, dead kids, soldiers torn apart you name it. He didn't slept a minute less about it.

His little daughter was really sick when he was on manoeuvres. The doctor gave her some medicaments and told to return on monday if it wasn't less by then.
After returning home from manoeuvres that friday night he went upstairs to give his sick daughter a kiss and tuck her in.
As he entered the room he found his little girl purple and not breathing. He ended up doing cpr on her on the dining table. Thank god she made it.
But there the trouble started. At first the dead kids he seen came to his dreams and after he collapsed everything else haunted him too.

These are all 3 different personality's mentally and physically so thats really no guideline. And as the one has it lumbering constantly the other can be triggered years later.
Glad there's more attention for it nowadays.

Hearing stories of other ww2 vets it reminds me to floyd's story. Most wanted to go on with their lives and tried to hide it. Everybody around you was in ww2. You don't hear them complaining. Get on with your life.
Only to discover later on that a whole generation was "gettin on" and experiencing the same problems.

I think with the 106th maybe some more because of the guilt feeling a lot of them had. But that is not to me to say.

Thanks for sharing again Floyd. Nothing more than respect.

[connie]

Thank you for the personal insights on this subject. Your words about triggers that can bring on delayed and deep reactions to combat stress link well with what I heard from a friend who experienced numerous earthquakes and took pride in the fact that she handled these traumatic events well. Then there was one that inflicted an injury. For her it was probably neither this final quake by itself nor the non-life threatening injury it inflicted that caused a change in her reaction to earthquakes. For her it was the accumulated effects of all her experiences that suddenly reached some threshold of "too much."

It is good that we can talk about this subject.

Your closing words to Floyd are a tribute. If there's any chance for monitoring web sites from "up there" Floyd will be checking in on this site, as was his daily habit. If not, I believe that he will hear your thoughts of tribute.

How good to leave this planet appreciated, enjoying life, giving back to others, and actively planning for tomorrow...