Uniform Questions

[connie]

Hi, all,

In the Research Corner of this discussion board, Carl started an amazing dialogue with photos on how to "read" a uniform: 106thdivision.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=remembering&action=display&thread=74

I have a few other basic questions about uniforms and when they were worn. Re-reading an old post by Floyd in which he mentioned that dress uniforms were required wear when, post war, he had a pass to Paris. see reply # 5 in On this Date... 106thdivision.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=dates&action=display&thread=300

"Fatigues" I assume were the non dress uniforms.

This is probably directed to Floyd, but anyone can chime in.

I'm wondering about other times when dress uniforms may have been required. When you headed by train in England from ships to the places you would be stationed, for example, did you wear fatigues?

And what about head gear. Were you required to wear helmets when you traveled in trains in non combat zones?

[floydragsdale]

Hello Connie:

When we traveled by train, as an individual, or as a unit, dress uniforms were the order for the occasion. Fatigue clothes were the things everyone wore while in training sessions, or in off duty hours around camp.

The wearing of helmets, when we were on the move, was up to the decision of the ranking officer. Nevertheless, they were always handy, whether strapped to our field packs, or in our duffle bags.

The helmet (steel pot) had many uses; a foot stool, wash clothes in (usually socks), cook in, sit on, use it to relieve yourself in during combat operations while standing in a foxhole. The helmet was one of the most versatile pieces of equipment a Soldier had. It was a handy item, to have around. It was a good thing we had training sessions about field sanitation. We knew how to beep it clean; even if t had to be scoured out with sand, or dirt.

Floyd

[connie]

Hi, Floyd,

This is interesting and helpful.

The many uses of a helmet is something you've mentioned before. I know my dad mentioned using them to boil his laundry. I guess after wearing some of this stuff for more than a month it needed boiling, if not burning!

Just trying to complete my mental picture of of headwear when traveling by train. Was a helmit acceptable with dress uniform or was less protective headwear the order of the day? Did an officer's dressy headwear differ from that of an enlisted man?


Connie

[floydragsdale]

Hi Connnie:

I forgot to mention the helmet liner. Everyone, officers & all, wore it constantly, in training & dress parades. It fit inside the steel one like a glove. In combat, most soldiers didn't use the chin strap. The concussion from a nearby exploding shell could, if the chin strap was fastened, break a persons neck, or worse than that. That happened to me during the Bulge Campaign. An exploding nearby screaming memie sent my helmet flying through the air. Lucky me! I wasn't injured, yet, had that chin strap been fastened, who knows what my state of affairs may have been?

Floyd

[Carl W.]

Oct 18, 2012 13:54:43 GMT -5 connie said:

Hi, Floyd,

Just trying to complete my mental picture of of headwear when traveling by train. Was a helmit acceptable with dress uniform or was less protective headwear the order of the day? Did an officer's dressy headwear differ from that of an enlisted man?

Hi Connie,
When off duty soldiers wore so-called garrison caps (a wool enveloppe type cap with bread in the color of their branch of service) or visor type caps. Officers had the same types but they differed in style and materials used. Officers would purchase their own uniforms so they were tailored in high quality (unlike enlisted uniforms which were provided by the QM Depots).

Some photos which show the difference between enlisted and officers caps:

ENLISTED VISOR CAP



ENLISTED GARRISON CAP



OFFICER'S VISOR CAP



OFFICER'S GARRISON CAP



Greetings
Carl

[connie]

Hi, Floyd & Carl,

Thanks for the interesting and helpful information!

The use/ non use of the chin strap on the helmet liners and the possible injuries associated with its wear are a totally new concept for me. Fascinating detail that was more than just a detail to those who were there...

Garrison cap vs. visor cap.. Those are extremely helpful terms. I knew them both by sight but totally out of a war context. Dad is wearing a visor cap in my parents wedding photo. The garrison cap and a dress uniform were also around the house when I was growing up. But I never had a name for either and hadn't a clue as to the distinctions of when one was worn instead of the other. The garrison cap seems a lot handier to transport when not in use. I can't imagine that a lot of visor caps made it through those early days of the bulge...

Thanks again to you both for helping me name and understand familiar headgear a little better!

[floydragsdale]

Here's reference to the Garrison Cap mentioned by Carl. Enlisted men of the 106th Division did not wear it. Most officers, however, had such a cap and wore it with their dress uniforms; depending on their rank they also wore it at retreat parades.

All enlisted men had an overseas cap & wore it with their dress uniforms.

The uniform for the day always was announced from higher echelon sources; probably Division Hq.

Floyd

[connie]

Thanks, Floyd,

This discussion continues to hold my interest. The garrison cap Carl pictured above looks a bit like the one Dad (an officer had). Interesting to know that you did not wear one of these. As near as I can see (and remember) they lie flat when not in use and come to a point on top when worn.

I went looking for the "overseas cap" you mentioned and found this spot where they used the term overseas cap and garrison cap interchangeably, but the cap looks different from the garrison cap above in that instead of having a tent-like point atop they have more material and are more flat atop. Does this look like what you remember as an "overseas cap" ? www.wwiiimpressions.com/newusarmyemodgarrisoncap.html

[floydragsdale]

Hello Connie"

We (106th) enlisted Soldiers had two overseas caps. One was for Spring to Fall seasons. It was a kaki color & probably made of cotton. The winter cap was made of wool & was olive drab in color. Also, it came to a point at the top.

At no period during my time in the Army did I have, or wear a garrison cap.

Floyd

[connie]

Floyd,

As always, it is great to have definitive word from someone who was there.

Just curious about another uniform detail. When you were discharged did you get to keep all your uniforms (winter/ summer/ dress/ fatigues)? Or did you have to turn some in?

[floydragsdale]

Hi Connie:

I was discharged in my Ike Jacket & wool trousers. That was it - - - nothing other than that.

Floyd

[roger]

I recall playing with my father's garrison hat, canteen, mess kit and a belt....I have no idea what happened to those items. However, my mother put his visor hat, his Ike jacket and a pair of pants in the attic. I now have them....displaying the visor hat next to his photo (wearing that hat)....and my wife had his Ike jacket (complete with patch, medals etc.) sealed and secured in a display case as a Christmas gift to me a few years ago. We have that case mounted on the wall in our living room. It is a daily remembrance for me of him, his commitment to this country and our great relationship....It is also a great conversation starter and teaching opportunity for our children and grandchildren (and their friends!!) about the freedoms for which he and Floyd and thousands of young Americans fought.

[connie]

Roger,

Thanks for the interesting addition to uniform discussions. Your wife gives meaningful thoughtful gifts... I have not seen a uniform displayed in a sealed case before. Was this custom made or can they be purchased?

Connie