Thanks for the Add

[cfvertigo]

My grandfather and great-uncle served in WWII. Basically my grandfather, Claude Fortner grew up in East Tennessee around Jefferson County/Grainger County and was stationed as a medic in Burma. He lived from 1919-2005 and is buried in Florida.

What I know from my great-uncle Junior is from a conversation at a funeral home in Grainger County, TN around 1995. He passed away around a year later. Basically he was a replacement soldier sent to Europe in late 1944, was cut off from his unit during the early days of the Battle of the Bulge hiding from a German patrol in a half frozen pond. He also had memories of the smell of dead bodies, horses on the side of the road and had been to one of the concentration camps. Unfortunately, I don't have any specific documents pertaining to what unit he served in or what camp he may have been at. My general research leads me to believe he may have served in the 106th and may have been at Ohrdruf concentration camp. Another possibility would be the 89th and that would match with the camp.

All my knowledge is from the oral tradition that they have told me during childhood. We are part Cherokee and in the older days, that is how stories were told.

[cfvertigo]

Junior also described fond memories of French women during some R&R time in Paris. But he would not ever want to have to go through war itself again.

[cfvertigo]

After researching the unit histories and matching it with my great-uncle's account, this is the one that seems the most plausible. It is nice to have some clarity.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XII_Corps_(United_States)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12th_Army_Group

[connie]

Thanks for posting.

Any chance there might be letters sent home that might have a return address that would help in tracking down a specific unit. Or perhaps there are some uniform badges that could help?

You are correct in thinking that 106th Infantry Division may be a possibility. They shipped out in October/ November of 1944 with many recent replacements in their ranks. Replacements would certainly have followed initial action in the Bulge.

Corps assignments would have changed during time in the Bulge. The 106th was initially assigned to the VIII Corps.

Carl has some good tips for requesting records. These can be found in this board's research corner: 106thdivision.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=research Unfortunately some records were destroyed in a fire. And of course many of the records from the 106th were destroyed during the Bulge.

Oral traditions, especially in a family accustomed to preserving oral history can be helpful.

Good luck in your search for answers. Please keep us posted.

Hopefully others will have helpful thoughts, too.

Connie

[cfvertigo]

I have studied this and in trying to piece together his involvement in Europe has led me to do extensive research on military organizations, logistics, command structure, all to just find out what division (wasn't necessarily concerned with squad or what not) he may have served in.

www.pattonthirdarmy.com/
www.89infdivww2.org/

This matches up with the story of being at the concentration camp. But it astounds me realizing this that he didn't even mention the specific unit he was with. But then again, a replacement could be in one division one week and another the next.

[cfvertigo]

My family does have a good written record of its general family history going back to the 1870's and some indications to as far as War of 1812. But all my accounts of WWII come directly from my grandfather and one account from my great uncle. I don't know if they told their stories to their children and wives or not. But certainly for me, I do remember it.

[roger]

Your quest sounds familiar! I, too, suspect my father was a replacement troop assigned for a period to a unit of/attached to the 89th. However, there are no records or rosters I can find that lists his name. Have you contacted Mark Kitchell?

I have had good success in general piecing together and updating my dad's service record (it was very incomplete in the beginning). I found quite a bit of info reading the hometown newspaper for the period of time my dad was in the service. Most papers carried a column about the promotions and events and location of hometown soldiers. It took me 2 entire days at the library reading old papers recorded on film....but it was fruitful. I also had a few pics that had a little bit of info that I could use to search the Internet.

[cfvertigo]

I emailed Kitchell yesterday. I may hear back from him soon. Rosters would be very hard to find I would think. My uncle was probably attached to 355th IR (at least when it liberated Ohrdruf). I'm not sure if replacements would receive permanent status as they continued with their service or not. If not, he may have rotated between regiments. If he had a permanent status after being re-assigned to 89th, the 355th would be the most plausible.

[cfvertigo]

I've been doing extensive research on my family tree going back around late 19th century. Utilizing the names in my baby book, I could glean what their occupations would have been. To make a long story short, I have connections to royalty in Germany (via the servant role-Parker meant groundkeeper of noble estate or one who tended to their horses),
Irish-Scots around Kirkcudbright (great-great grandfather on mom's side-McKnight as in like a town councilman) and
Chesire (great-great grandmother via dad's side-one who lives in ravine or outside the castle walls)

My name comes from Pfortner or gatekeeper. Bruce Pfortner would have been a man of authority once upon a time since he was the gatekeeper at a cathedral or monastery. Maybe London. Maybe Canterbury. Not sure though. He married the daughter of a Cherokee Indian chief in North Carolina and moved to Grainger County in late 19th century. I also have distant relatives who are part Apache. I recall an oral account decades ago from my aunt in Georgia (aunt and uncle passed away in mid 1990's) that in some convoluted way we would be related to Martin Van Buren and Tecumseh (perhaps through my Cherokee connection). It wouldn't have been unheard of for people from different tribes to marry). We just don't have that modern birth certificate, photograph, etc...

[roger]

You have clearly accomplished a great deal in researching your family's genealogy. This is my next "mission"! My mother and an uncle did quite a bit of research before they passed....I need to complete it.

I am curious about your conclusions re the 89th Division and the 355th Regiment per se. What specific info or evidence did you have that led you to the 89th and the 355th?

[cfvertigo]

I researched the unit histories for one. Junior says during the battle, his unit (I guess a squad or platoon) was overrun and he had to hide in a frozen pond kind of like that scene in Battleground (1949) where the guy hides under the jeep. He gave the basic account that he was re-assigned in January (after the battle was over) and marched through Germany. He came into a concentration camp in April. This lines up pretty much with the 89th unit history. It was the 355th IR that liberated that particular camp. It would love to be able to get some records pertaining to his service, but that will certainly be a task.

[cfvertigo]

The 89th Infantry Division landed in France at Le Havre, 21 January 1945, and engaged in several weeks of precombat training before moving up to the Sauer River into jump-off positions east of Echternach, 11 March 1945. The next day, the offensive began, and the 89th plunged across the Sauer in a rapid advance to and across the Moselle, 17 March. The offensive rolled on, and the division assaulted across the Rhine River on 26 March 1945 under intense fire in the Wellmich-Oberwesel region. A pontoon bridge was built across the Rhine from St. Goar to St. Goarshausen. In April, the 89th attacked toward Eisenach, taking that town on 6 April. The next objective, Friedrichroda, was secured by 8 April. On 4 April 1945, the 89th overran Ohrdruf, a subcamp of the Buchenwald concentration camp. Ohrdruf was the first Nazi concentration camp liberated by U.S. troops in Germany.
The division continued to move eastward toward the Mulde River, capturing Zwickau by 17 April. The advance was halted, 23 April, and from then until VE-day, the division saw only limited action, engaging in patrolling and general security. Three towns, Lossnitz, Aue, and Stollberg, were kept under constant pressure, but no attacks were launched. The 89th Infantry's casualties consisted of 292 men killed in action, 692 men wounded in action, and 33 men died of wounds.

Assignments in the European Theater of Operations
21 January 1945: Fifteenth Army, 12th Army Group.
4 March 1945: XII Corps, Third Army, 12th Army Group.
23 March 1945: VIII Corps.
22 April 1945: VIII Corps, First Army, 12th Army Group.

[roger]

You definitely have some good foundational points for your conclusion. My dad related a similar comment to me just as an aside one time. We were watching the Corrie Ten Boom film,"The Hiding Place", many years ago. There is a scene showing the gates to either Buchenwald or Auschwitz. My dad leaned over and whispered " I have seen a place like that" or " I have seen that place". At the time, I did not follow it up....now, I wonder what he actually said. The fact that in his box of memorabilia there was an 89th Div patch, the fact that he was an infantry replacement troop (from AAF stationed in England until sometime in March 1945) assigned to an unknown outfit, a couple references to events occurring in late winter/early spring suggesting combat, the CIB in his memorabilia box and his comment at the movie.....I am leaning strongly to the conclusion that he was attached to the 89th until he was assigned to the 6951 Prov Guard Bn attached to the 106th Div serving at PWTE - A2 (Remagen). The only other possible twist is that when PWTE - A2 was handed over to the French in July 1945, he was assigned to the 69th Amphibian Tractor Bn formed near Marburg.....which is in the same vicinity as Buchenwald. This could be the concentration camp he was referring to at the movie; even so, it does not necessarily discount the possibility that he was with the 89th at some point. So.....now you see the missing piece in MY puzzle.

I will be interested to hear what Mark K has to tell you. By the way....have you read "Good Soldiers"? A fascinating read about the 353rd Reg, 89th Div.

Roger

[cfvertigo]

The only other possibility without actually having his service record would be the 42nd ID. This would also account for being at a concentration camp in April, 1945 although later in the month and further south. But unfortunately, as I understand it, most of the records were burned in a fire in 1970's. Nonetheless, it was still quite an event to go through. Is there a map that generally covers the Allied advance through Europe in 1945 perhaps detailing which Army Group or division would have gone? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/42nd_Infantry_Division_(United_States)#World_War_II

[cfvertigo]

Roger, I have not read Good Soldiers, but I will make a note of it.

[roger]

I had the good fortune of having my dad's discharge papers....however, they were grossly incomplete. I have been able to have his record updated with info I could provide along with a good explanation. The 89th issue continues to be the missing link.

In re to your question about a single map showing the allied advance....I don't know. I imagine Carl or Jim W. could provide comment.

[roger]

Www.89infdivww2.org/home/list_m.htm

Will take you to page M of the roster....you can navigate to other pages from there.

Roger