Looking for more info on PFC Roosevelt Silvester

[blackhound]

Hello, I am not sure if there is any hope in finding out exactly which Company and Squad my late grandfather served under. I have done some research on him and unfortunately only have just partial information. From what I understand a lot of service members files were destroyed in a great fire here in the US.  What I do know is he was with the 106th Infantry Division and 422nd Regiment.  His basic training was held at Fort Benjamin Harrison, Indiana (he was originally from Youngstown, OH). I do know he was captured on the first day of the Battle of the Bulge and sent to Stalag 4B Muhlberg Sachsen 51-13.  Relatives of his made fun of him saying he was captured right off the boat.  I heard he was wounded in the inner thigh (possibly trying to escape) and he said he woke up on a ship.  My grandmother said he tried twice to escape, the second time apparently he was successful.  I do know he told me he was a machine gunner and prior to his capture his whole unit was ambushed from the sides and he climbed out of the valley where he ultimately was captured.  Please let me know if there is any way of tying in from what information I have to what company and squad he was with.   Thank you so much!

[connie]

Hi,

I don't have any immediate easy answers for you. But you're doing all the right things in trying to find answers.

There is always hope. Sometimes answers will find you in unexpected ways. You do know much more about your grandfather than many people begin with.

Indeed many records were lost in a fire. But even that is not always a dead end. When I inquired about my father's records they had indeed suffered that fate. But I sent all the info i had along with my inquiry. They said that sometimes they could locate old records at secondary sites if they had enough to go on. I got a form back that I filled out with all that I knew. And they did indeed come back with info for me. I don't know if what you have will be enough to locate a secondary site. But if you haven't tried, it's worth a try.

I checked the Roster produced by Jim West of the Indiana Military Site & found that you had given him your info. But I also found another source number listed. I think there was an error in this number. If I recall the number given was a 59. Whatever number it was it lead to a POW list for the 590th Field Artillery Battalion provided by Carl Wouters. Although this was an incorrect reference #, it leads me to believe that sometime after you contacted Jim, he found your Grandfather's name on another list-- probably a POW list. Unfortunately he still did not have a unit name in the 422nd. But it hints that the name may be out there somewhere else. I'll try alerting Carl to the fact that you're asking. He may have the source list. He also has a lot more experience tracking down info than I do. Maybe he'll have some more suggestions.

Don't give up. Keep asking. If you haven't found anything, ask again. When this post has aged a bit and drifted off the top of the list, feel free to come back on and post a reply that says you're still looking. That will bring it to the top of the list again.

There are some research tips on this discussion board that you may find helpful. And anyone who has more tips from your own research, feel free to chime in...

Connie

PS. Floyd, (or Carl, or anyone else), would the fact that he was a machine gunner give clues as to the Company?

[connie]

Morning,

While waiting for others to check in on this this thread, I have a couple of stray thoughts to add:

1) Before the 106th
If your grandfather enlisted in March of 1945 and went through training at Ft. Benjamin Harrision in Indiana, he was not initially part of the 106th Infantry Division. The Division finished its Maneuvers in Tennessee in March (late March, if memory serves but I'd have to check this) and then headed to Camp Atterbury in Indiana as a fully trained cohesive unit ready to ship out. That's what they thought they would be doing almost immediately. But the Army needed replacements for other units in the days before and after D-day. So the division was stripped of waves of troops (over 7,000 in all) and ended up waiting at Camp Atterbury for its own replacements. Your grandfather was likely one of these replacements.

2) Escapes from Stalag IV-B
The mention of your Grandfather's escaping twice is interesting. Who knows if you'll ever find a link to piece these accounts together. My knowledge of Stalag IV B and the history of its detainees is slim. But I do believe it was initially "liberated" on April 22 by the Russians. That did not seem to be the end, however, A couple of family accounts on the wartime site tell of escapes after the Russians took over: www.wartimememories.co.uk/pow/stalag4b.html (Scroll town and see accounts by Rob Miller and Jeremy Karen.)

The son of another man from the 422nd who was detained at Stalag IV B has posted on this 106th Discussion Board. I'll try to let him know you're posting and seeking information.

Connie

[blackhound]

Thank you so much Connie for all the extra info.   You have me thinking now.  Would his serial number provide any clues; his was 35244651?  You know, I am not 100% sure that he was with the 106th Infantry.  I am only going by what I found out online.   All we know, he may have been with another unit and during this ambush got split up from his unit and was united with another unit.  Is that possible?  I do remember him telling me that he marched through several towns liberating them as he went along, before his capture.  He told me quite abit but I was only 16 years old at the time which was many many years ago now.  I wish he were alive today so he could have told me more details, his stories he told me when I was 16, are all I have to go by.

Let me know, what yourself, or anyone else that maybe interested in finding more details. 

[blackhound]

Just a quick note. I went back to my grandfathers partial records I was able to find online and noticed that it says, "Place of Enlistment: Fort Benjamin Harrison Indiana". This very well may not be where he had his basic training? Just wondering. Or would his basic training be held at the same place of enlistment? I'm not sure about how to decipher some of this. I also see his POW partial records shows "Type of Organization: 740" as the value.  And its shows Parent Unit Number as 0422 which I was told is 422nd Regiment and Parent Unit Type as 06 which, once again was told, that it means 106th Infantry Division.   If this seems accurate and you concur with this, let me know.  I'm growing more and more intrigued with my grandfather's WWII past and whatever new information could be shed on this would be fantastic.

Thanks again!

[floydragsdale]

Hello:

Ft. Benjamin Harrison was only an induction Center. A new recruit drew his army uniform, received shots and was given academic tests (the Army wanted to find out how much he knew and didn't know). At this time the recruit was assigned to a Army base somewhere in the U.S.A.

This Army Veteran was inducted at Ft. Harrison in late 1943. Upon drawing my uniform, taking tests and getting shots (inoculations) I was assigned to a newly formed infantry Division (65th) at Camp Shelby, MS. Basic Training was from January to April Unit training and maneuvers were from May to at least August 1944. Late August the Army Transferred me to the 106th Div. at Camp Atterbury, IN...

I hope this will help you.

Floyd
424th Regiment

[connie]

NOTE: I THINK THAT FLOYD AND I WERE BOTH WRITING REPLIES AT THE SAME TIME. HIS WAS FINISHED FIRST. I ADDED SOMETHING HERE THAT HE SENT ME SOMETIME YESTERDAY. THANKS, FLOYD, FOR BOTH PIECES OF INFO. THEY CLARIFY THINGS A BIT FOR ME, ANYWAY.

Your grandfather's story is holding my interest. I'm on the run this morning so won't be able to immediately spend the time on this I'd like. But I'll add a couple of thoughts before I get moving.

First, I have an answer from Floyd to the question I asked about machine guns and units:

Connie:

I hope the following will be of help.

THE INFANTRY BATTALION (Authorized Strength - 860):
Three infantry rifle companies, a headquarters & headquarters company, and a heavy weapons company together made up the infantry battalion. The headquarters & headquarters company was referred to by that name, or as “HHC”. The other companies of the battalion, however, were known as the “letter companies.” Identification of the “letter companies” ran consecutively through the three battalions of the infantry regiment: 1st Battalion contained A, B, and C Companies (rifle companies) and D Company (heavy weapons); 2nd Battalion contained E, F, and G Companies (rifle companies) and H Company (heavy weapons); 3rd Battalion contained I, K, and L Companies (rifle companies) and M Company (heavy weapons). The letter J was not used, as it could be confused with the letter “I” when handwritten.

A machine gunner in a heavy-weapons company operated a 50 caliber (Heavy) machine-gun.

Companies A,B,C. E, F,G and I,K,L each had one Heavy weapons platoon. A machine gunner in those platoons operated a 30 caliber, water cooled, (light) machine-gun.

Floyd

Bottom line to this is that if you knew that he operated a 50 caliber (heavy) machine gun, you would know that he was in M company. If he operated the lighter machine gun he could have been in any company. If you don't know then this is all just interesting data to tuck away.

I have read the site where you were given your lead to the unit in the division. If the info is accurate there it does look to me as if they gave you a good lead by naming the 422 Infantry Regiment of the 106th Infantry Division. "Parent Unit Number 0422" followed by "Parent Unit Type: Regiment" The number with unit type looks like just a form code number that indicates that the unit type is a regiment. Earlier the form indicated he was army infantry. I don't believe the regiment numbers were replicated anywhere. If you do a search on 422 Infantry Regiment, you will find that it is one of 3 infantry regiments in the 106th Infantry Division.

In one of your posts I read that family joked that your grandfather was captured almost as soon as he left the boat. This would fit the 106th Infantry Division. They headed over to England first, trickling in on 3 ships in October and November of 1944. It was early December before most of these men began crossing the channel. Then there was a wait in France for some before all were assembled and orders received. They did not liberate anyone on their journey through France to the front, but they did move through territory that had been liberated by Allied forces in the time after D-day. The remnants of these battles could be seen along their journey. The 422 finally hit an area of Germany along the German Siegfried lines and at the north flank of the division's placement. The full division was in place only a matter of a few days before the beginning of the German offensive.

[blackhound]

Okay.   That clarifies that my grandfather did not attend basic training at Fort Benjamin.  Very good to know.  I'll correct that in my written documentary of my grandfather's time in WWII.  I wrote a small report about my grandfather and facts that I learned, on paper to preserve his memory.  Also, this should help:  I remember vividly my grandfather telling me as he was marching through a town, he saw tracers flying over him from a building window.  He told me when he saw this he set up his machine gun and shot his tracers in the window.  He said "I think I killed 3 Germans that day because it took 3 people to operate that machine gun they used, and the shooting stopped from them".  This sort of tells me that if he had to "set up" his machine gun, then it must have been the bigger one.

He also was involved with some shelling in his area.  He ended up jumping in a hole that held peoples feces.  He said no one wanted to help him out of that hole, sort of comical now that I think about it.

Thank you everyone so far for clarifications and new information.  Its like a puzzle that had a lot of pieces missing and slowly pieces are fitting in place.  

[gfgrant8443]

Connie asked me to give you directions to my fathers diary on the Indiana Military website. He was in the 106th from the beginning and was also a POW at Stalag IV-B plus a couple more. The links to his story are on this Discussion Group in the member list for the 422nd. S/Sgt Kenneth Grant Hq. Company, third Battalion 422nd. Inf. On the Indiana Military Site his story is under Stalag IV-B if you want to go directly. I posted excerpts of his letters home and a verbatim copy of his POW Diary. I hope this is helpful. I have a lot of reference books but very few name names.

Franklin Grant

[floydragsdale]

May 20, 2014 17:22:30 GMT -5 blackhound said:

Okay.   That clarifies that my grandfather did not attend basic training at Fort Benjamin.  Very good to know.  I'll correct that in my written documentary of my grandfather's time in WWII.  I wrote a small report about my grandfather and facts that I learned, on paper to preserve his memory.  Also, this should help:  I remember vividly my grandfather telling me as he was marching through a town, he saw tracers flying over him from a building window.  He told me when he saw this he set up his machine gun and shot his tracers in the window.  He said "I think I killed 3 Germans that day because it took 3 people to operate that machine gun they used, and the shooting stopped from them".  This sort of tells me that if he had to "set up" his machine gun, then it must have been the bigger one.

He also was involved with some shelling in his area.  He ended up jumping in a hole that held peoples feces.  He said no one wanted to help him out of that hole, sort of comical now that I think about it.

Thank you everyone so far for clarifications and new information.  Its like a puzzle that had a lot of pieces missing and slowly pieces are fitting in place.  

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[floydragsdale]

Whether a Soldier was using a heavy machine gun (50 Caliber) or light machine gun (30 Caliber) it had to be set up. One man could set up a Light Machine-gun but for one man to set-up a Heavy Machine-gun under any circumstances would be very questionable for one Soldier to do.

Floyd
424th Regiment

[blackhound]

Thank you Franklin, I would be honored to read up on your fathers diary.  May shed some light as to what my grandfather went through.

Thanks Floyd for clearing that up for me.  Then from what you said it was most likely the smaller caliber machine gun.  He never did say if someone helped him with setting up the gun so I'm assuming he went solo.  Wow, this has been a back and forth experience for me.  Just when I think I have things figured out, another piece adjusts everything.

I spoke with my grandmother yesterday hoping for alittle more info.  She did clear up the fact that my grandfather DID try to escape twice but was unsuccessful both times.  He was liberated by the Russians and was sent home on a ship that docked back to Jacksonville, FL.  She said he was only 100 pounds when he returned home.  Other than that, she said I seemed to know more about my grandfather than she did, she said she never really talked much about the war with him. 

Thanks everyone for all the help!

[mnvettes]

Very interesting reading. I don't recall you mentioning anything of your grandfathers military items. Sometimes items such as uniforms, photos, medals, etc. can shed some light into pinpointing information. Hopefully you still have some of his items. You could confirm on a uniform the division by any shoulder patches. Also any medals such as marksmanship pins can sometimes have tabs that might say the types of weapons he had qualified on. It might say 30 cal, or something else. Sometimes photos might show similar items with patches, pins etc., and maybe even training photos with weapons shown. Connie is correct about not giving up. There is a man on ebay that researches and sells booklets of various divisions GO's (General Orders). Usually GO's show when a soldier was awarded a medal, or his CIB (combat infantry badge). Within the GO is listed (usually) rank and a soldiers division and company. I asked him if he had put together any booklets on the 106th. He said he had done it, but lost everything when his computer crashed. I told him that there would be many interested folks if he were to take the time to put it together again. Might take him awhile, but I am ever watchful that he will offer it some day again. Keep researching. I would love to know what you might have of his uniform, etc. It might be helpful to you in a little way. Take Care.

[connie]

"Mnvettes" uniform notes raises an interesting question in my mind. I know he is absolutely right about a uniform being a source of much information. But I'm wondering about what if any part of their uniforms the POW's had with them and what they came home with. I'm thinking that at the time of capture most were probably wearing fatigues without unit identifying patches and without medals and awards. And I don't know what they were allowed to keep during captivity. Most wore the same clothing throughout the months of captivity and I'm thinking that this attire was probably burned after they were returned to American hands and fumigated for lice. They did not return to their units but were shipped home when they were able to make that journey. I'm guessing that they returned in some kind of generic army attire issued post liberation. But I really don't know. I do know that my father, who was not taken captive, lost his dress uniform during their escape on the second day of the Bulge. Since he remained with the remnants of the division throughout the war, he did acquire replacement dress clothes. But this is an interesting question...

[blackhound]

Yes, Connie is right.  My grandfather did not attain any clothes, medals, or even any pictures. If there were any pictures my grandmother would probably have them but she is about 83yrs old now and does not have the strength to rummage through her stuff. She also lives quite a distance from me. I do know he was awarded the purple heart for his wound but my grandfather told me he lost that many years ago.   He didn't seem to care to keep anything related to the war.  He was mainly wanting to put that time period behind him.  He even said they offered to make him a corporal if he would stay in the army. He declined.  I'm sure he had enough of the military life.

Thank you once again. I'll keep on digging as the days go on to see if I can find anything new.

[connie]

Thanks for confirming my suspicions about the uniform. This morning I decided to attempt the on line records search of the National Archives. It's been a while. I sent the results to your private mailbox. If you want to retrace my steps yourself:

1. go to this discussion board's Research Corner 106thdivision.proboards.com/board/24/research-corner

2. Click on Carl's thread: Step One: Online WWII Enlistment Records.

3. Read over Carl's Instructions and click on the link he gives to the National Archives.

All it takes is the name and serial number which you have, but it took me two tries entering the name. I carefully typed last name, a space, and first name. I came up with nothing. It turns out name needs to be typed in all caps. The name is uncommon and correct entry yields just one result. That result gives you an option to view the "full" enlistment record.

The results will likely not overwhelm you with new information, but it gives you something to add to your records. There may be a detail here that helps locate further records.

I have a couple of other thoughts that may be more productive, but I think I'll work with one thought at a time!

Have a great day.

Connie

[connie]

See you were on line today. It's fine to post anything--even a note saying you have found nothing new.

It helps remind anyone looking that you are out there and still looking.

Connie